Clash
Active member
Have any new Fletchers been sold since these people took it over?
Fairline new owner?
- Thread starter stelican
- Start date
petem
Well-known member
Nope and that is effectively the worst case scenario for Fairline.
But the last time the new owners of Fairline were involved (Wessex Bristol), there was a pre-pack to Russian investors who started up Fairline Yachts.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Up until very recently there was a row of new Fairlines at Ipswich, regularly changing, they certainly seemed to be churning boats out.
There are now no boats here and the yard at the side of the workshop is empty, save for one boat in shrink wrap.
There are now no boats here and the yard at the side of the workshop is empty, save for one boat in shrink wrap.
stelican
Well-known member
Why is it that these UK boat companies just never seem to make a profit, Or break even.
47GC
Active member
My opinion: They started designing & building big boats. These boat owners are looking for true customisation, to pay the big bucks. Bigger boats are much more of a cost drain on resources, stick to the 50/60 and leave the other stuff to the custom boat builders.
Martin_J
Well-known member
Moody and Sealine have both been mentioned in this thread.. I worked for The Body Shop for eighteen years until 20th February this year.. This is what I posted on Facebook at the time.
"
Over the past eighteen years, Aurelius (an investment firm) have been involved in the closure of many well established boat builders, causing misery and heartache for the thousands of employees, families and suppliers whose income and livelihoods were cruelly and abruptly taken away from them.
Moody Yachts in 2006. A major UK boat builder since 1827. All Moody UK yacht building on the south coast was ceased and production moved to the Hanse (whose major stockholder is Aurelius) yard in Greifswald.
Moody Yachts - Wikipedia
Fjord Motor boats in 2007. The family run yard in Norway, established in the 1950s was immediately closed and production moved to the Aurelius owned Greifswald yard in Germany.
Fjord Boats UK - About Fjord
Dehler Yachts in 2009. The Dehler yard in Germany was closed as swept up by Aurelius and the business moved to Greifswald.
Entire production of HanseGroup heads to German headquarters in Greifswald — Yacht Charter & Superyacht News
Sealine 2013. The Kidderminster yard was shut down in 2013 with the loss of 234 local jobs and production moved to Greifswald.
Sealine brand sold off as factory set to close
This same Aurelius bought The Body Shop brand on 29th December 2023 and within months hundreds (and by the time you read this, thousands) of redundancies were announced. No notice, no consultation, no redundancy packages (that policy was, unbeknown to staff, removed in January) and here in the UK, the government is being left to pick up the bill. The redundancies have included mums on maternity leave, pregnant mums, staff on working visas, people who cannot now pay their rent and people in too many more awful situations to mention.
We understand that businesses need to make tough decisions at times and that redundancies are inevitable when businesses are not profitable. However when the business is still making money - People who have dedicated their time and hard work should hold a higher value than other corporate creditors.
As activists, we all wish to prevent this from happening to other businesses and their dedicated employees in the future..
"
We created petition to challenge the legality of what is happening in our midst... The government seem to have listened... but that's all that's happened.
Since then, I have discovered that Privelege Catamarans, based in France, have also been bought by Aurelius. Some of their production is expected to move to Griefswald in the near future.
Edit: The above all came to light after Aurelius bought The Body Shop from Natura and proceeded to reduce staff and close many profitable stores around the world, affecting staff, customers, suppliers and the many charities that relied upon us...
"
Over the past eighteen years, Aurelius (an investment firm) have been involved in the closure of many well established boat builders, causing misery and heartache for the thousands of employees, families and suppliers whose income and livelihoods were cruelly and abruptly taken away from them.
Moody Yachts in 2006. A major UK boat builder since 1827. All Moody UK yacht building on the south coast was ceased and production moved to the Hanse (whose major stockholder is Aurelius) yard in Greifswald.
Moody Yachts - Wikipedia
Fjord Motor boats in 2007. The family run yard in Norway, established in the 1950s was immediately closed and production moved to the Aurelius owned Greifswald yard in Germany.
Fjord Boats UK - About Fjord
Dehler Yachts in 2009. The Dehler yard in Germany was closed as swept up by Aurelius and the business moved to Greifswald.
Entire production of HanseGroup heads to German headquarters in Greifswald — Yacht Charter & Superyacht News
Sealine 2013. The Kidderminster yard was shut down in 2013 with the loss of 234 local jobs and production moved to Greifswald.
Sealine brand sold off as factory set to close
This same Aurelius bought The Body Shop brand on 29th December 2023 and within months hundreds (and by the time you read this, thousands) of redundancies were announced. No notice, no consultation, no redundancy packages (that policy was, unbeknown to staff, removed in January) and here in the UK, the government is being left to pick up the bill. The redundancies have included mums on maternity leave, pregnant mums, staff on working visas, people who cannot now pay their rent and people in too many more awful situations to mention.
We understand that businesses need to make tough decisions at times and that redundancies are inevitable when businesses are not profitable. However when the business is still making money - People who have dedicated their time and hard work should hold a higher value than other corporate creditors.
As activists, we all wish to prevent this from happening to other businesses and their dedicated employees in the future..
"
We created petition to challenge the legality of what is happening in our midst... The government seem to have listened... but that's all that's happened.
Since then, I have discovered that Privelege Catamarans, based in France, have also been bought by Aurelius. Some of their production is expected to move to Griefswald in the near future.
Edit: The above all came to light after Aurelius bought The Body Shop from Natura and proceeded to reduce staff and close many profitable stores around the world, affecting staff, customers, suppliers and the many charities that relied upon us...
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
That’s true. And who knows, maybe the new owners will inject millions, hire more people, and pay all the small creditors…! Be great to see that happen. It’s an iconic brand for sure but can it survive?
stelican
Well-known member
I believe all of the UK manufacturers have/had a range of models sub50/ 60ft.They also seem to have a market for the larger models.
ari
Well-known member
This is interesting, but I'm not sure how it is relevant, unless you are saying that Aurelius is buying/has bought Fairline?
ari
Well-known member
My opinion (for what it's worth). Fairline, Sealine, Sunseeker, Princess and more had very profitable businesses making good solid high quality 25ft - 50ft boats in the eighties and nineties. Then along came the French (Beneteau, Jeanneau etc) and starting building mass produced boats of a similar style and concept that were not as well built, but perfectly adequate.
Customers started realising that instead of a really solid 28 footer, they could opt for a less high quality (but perfectly acceptable) 32 footer which would give them more space, perhaps an extra cabin or whatever. Or, could buy the same sized boat and save a useful amount of money. And to be fair, the French boats have some good concepts and ideas.
The British companies couldn't compete, so once popular boats like the Sealine 285/290/310, Princess 266/286/315/330/35/388, Fairline Sunfury/Targa 27/28/29/Corsica/Phantom, Sunseeker Portofino 31/32/Martinique 36 were dropped and the brands took flight into clear air upmarket where the mass produced competition didn't exist (hence, for example, the Sunseeker range now starting at 50ft, if you ignore the Hawk 38 open speed boat).
Which was fine, until Jeanneau launched the Prestige brand, Beneteau starting building bigger Grand Turismo and Swift Trawler models, and the same thing happened. Smaller companies like Sealine ran out of road, other companies tried to do the same again, drop smaller competing models and expand at the top end, moving up to the superyacht league, but found themselves unable to compete with established builders like Sanlorenzo.
So they are now squeezed into a shrinking middle ground. They do (in my opinion) make a better boat. The problem is, how many people look at the mass produced alternative and think 'that is perhaps not as good, but it is good enough, and I save money/get a bigger boat for my money, which is a more tangible benefit' compared to those who say 'I have the money to simply buy the best at the size point I want, I don't want a bigger one and I don't need to save money'.
A very similar thing happened in the sailboat market a few years ago, Westerly, Moody, Southerly, Sadler, Sigma, all British companies building really solid good quality boats, but mass production of cheaper competitors started and too many buyers were seduced by the potential savings/bigger boat for the same money and went elsewhere.
A real shame, and I don't know what the answer is.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
That sounds about right. The other factor that seems to affect the British brands in particular (or maybe they’re just more visible) is that of woefully inept management. Maybe the two things are linked, I guess there’s a cause/effect here but taking Princess as an example it makes and sells a lot of expensive boats yet seems incapable of turning a profit and burns cash like there’s no tomorrow.
ari
Well-known member
But (and I'm asking a question, not disagreeing with you because I'm no expert on boat manufacturing) is that not intrinsically linked to the fact that building a high quality hand made product IS inevitably going to 'burn more cash'?
If you want to build a better boat, you're going to have to use higher quality/more materials and use more people/take much longer to do it in a better way. You could, I suppose, use cheaper/less materials, rush it through faster, use lower grade production techniques, basically start mass producing. But then surely you would then lose the one edge you have, that high end product, and you have nothing left to compete with mass production already done very well elsewhere?
I wonder whether the answer lies with the brand positioning. Stick an advert of a big white boat from a 'high end' British builder in a magazine and the average punter is left wondering why he should pay 25% (or whatever) more than he would for the big white boat in the advert placed by the mass production builder. That same punter, however, has no problem with paying 50% more for his Range Rover than he would have paid for a Toyota Land Cruiser that, on paper at least, does the same job (in fact the Land Cruiser probably does it better!) because he recognises that the Range Rover is a 'high end' brand that costs more, so he is happy to do so.
petem
Well-known member
Toyota Landcruisers now cost £90k+
ari
Well-known member
And a Range Rover SV starts at £160K+
But Dacia Duster then, if that makes the analogy easier to understand.
Clash
Active member
If we're talking about Fairline, i suspect that the myriad owners it's had over the last 18 or so years have done their best to strip as much as possible from it before passing it on to the next bunch of leeches. All discussion of costs, competition and quality have to be viewed through that lens.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
That’s probable.
jakew009
Well-known member
It’s interesting to me that my 2002 Jenneau boat has a fully connectorised automotive style wiring harness. It looks like it was manufactured in a proper harness factory and would have taken no time at all for unskilled labour on the production floor to chuck in the boat. It has connectors for all the possible options that the boat could be sold with.
Contrast that to plenty of British boats of the same era that seem to have totally custom wiring looms for each boat that will have required lots of highly skilled labour to ultimately end up with an inferior job.
That phenomenon multiplied by hundreds of different systems in a boat must be part of the reason some boat builders have floundered whilst others have done well.
Contrast that to plenty of British boats of the same era that seem to have totally custom wiring looms for each boat that will have required lots of highly skilled labour to ultimately end up with an inferior job.
That phenomenon multiplied by hundreds of different systems in a boat must be part of the reason some boat builders have floundered whilst others have done well.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
I said pretty much this after seeing the Aquaholic videos at the Princess factory. Men, hand making individual wiring harnesses for the same model of boat, because of things like one had 2 TVs, the other had 3. FFS, make a main loom that fits the whole range, with some sub looms for engine options etc, and so what if it has a spare connector for a 3rd TV.
Alicatt
Well-known member
Yes, this, As an ex-Landcruiser owner, Toyota put one wiring harness in the 80 series it had all the connectors for all the options no matter which model of the FJ80 you bought whether poverty pack GX or the full bells and whistles of the VX, all the connectors were there behind the dash or in other places. I added the manual selection of the centre diff lock to the VX I had, it was a few £ for the switch, the connector into the loom was behind the dash ready for the switch to be installed, the loom went down to the transfer box, the plug was there but not plugged into the transfer box, plugged it in and plugged in the switch to the loom on the dash and it worked.
Same with the trailer lights there is a plug/socket under the floor in the boot you plug the trailer sockets into and away you go.
In my case the Toyota dealer did not have a Toyota harness so just scotblocked into the wiring harness and in a rain storm the car died from water ingress
Boat2016
Active member
Except that you won’t be able to buy in the UK as they haven’t sold enough electric cars, was told by a dealer they have a big waiting list but sadly can’t supply any.