Fairline - any news?

fwiw (not much as I doubt the big three are with us in this discussion...)
I fully agree with Henry and would go even further down keeping a 40 a 55 and a 70. I'd check typical berth sizes and try and accomodate the upper limit on each class ;) and be done with (so maybe the 40 is 43, the 55 is 58 and so on).
Assuming you can have the same hull design for a sports and a f/b, I'd then do 2 X 3, fullstop and a modular hard/soft on the sports cruisers.

cheers

V.
 
ah, and since i devices were discussed, I'd dare say that Princess is like Samsung, that has a range of maybe 20 (ok maybe slightly exaggerating...) smartphones from 3.5 to 6inches that look similar, have similar processors and capabilities.

IMHO you can get away with 20 models on a 200-400euro range, but when you go up and development costs are just plain silly, you're stupid going for even 10 models ;)

cheers

V.
 
vas said:
fwiw (not much as I doubt the big three are with us in this discussion...)
I fully agree with Henry and would go even further down keeping a 40 a 55 and a 70. I'd check typical berth sizes and try and accomodate the upper limit on each class ;) and be done with (so maybe the 40 is 43, the 55 is 58 and so on).
Assuming you can have the same hull design for a sports and a f/b, I'd then do 2 X 3, fullstop and a modular hard/soft on the sports cruisers.

cheers

V.
Click to expand...

Others will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that the production lines and skills may be quite different for 40, 55 and 70 foot boats. Therefore you'd lose all your ability to flex your production facilities to meet high and low demands for each of your three lengths. And also, don't be surprised if another builder nicks your sale when a punter wants a 46 or 50 footer (both popular sizes).
 
petem said:
Others will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that the production lines and skills may be quite different for 40, 55 and 70 foot boats. Therefore you'd lose all your ability to flex your production facilities to meet high and low demands for each of your three lengths. And also, don't be surprised if another builder nicks your sale when a punter wants a 46 or 50 footer (both popular sizes).
Click to expand...

The British boatbuilding did learn from Sealine during the 80's and early 90's, build standard, full spec boats, on a optimised production. By making what Princess classed as extras standard, the increased throughput possible more than payed material costs. Then one day Tom said I am going to start making to the same spec as Princess, for example fixed 13.6 volt chargers as opposed the the multi-stage that that had been standard before. Result was drop in production throughput, increased cost from the need to increase labour, put Sealine could not cover the cost premium that Princess could with the sad result.

The problem was/is sticking to what you know, not optimising product design for production, that includes how you make a range between 40 and 70 foot that is viable.

Brian
 
petem said:
I certainly agree that model ranges need to be scaled down. But the 'S' class has always struck me as being the worst of both worlds. To me, 40, 50, 60 and 70 is just too broad and the increments are too large. I'd pick a size sector and make sure I completely own that market. So for Fairline, I'd go 38, 44, 50, and 58 with a sports cruiser (hard and soft top) and flybridge at each length. Each increment would add a significant benefit over its smaller sibling, be it an extra cabin or jump in breathing space. I certainly wouldn't be trying to 'out Sunseeker' Sunseeker.
Click to expand...

I looked at the S65 at Southampton and thought it superb in the brief time we had onboard. The flybridge was hardly tiny and if you want and open top down below it was available. But a good design should be adaptable, possibly the top moulding could be fly or sports. But I still fancy the idea of a one design hybrid :)

As for your Fairline suggestion, the first thing you've done is take away the two boats which actually work quite well all be it with dated hulls and which will sell on price because all the development has already been done. Both the 65 and 78 are large enough that internal space doesn't have to be designed to perfection and there don't need to be shortcomings.

A 38 and a 44 are pretty much the same thing as are a 50 and a 56. You're thinking too much as an old school boatbuilder and a customer plagued by current design / length / pricing constraints.

As for other builders stepping in and nicking customers, not if your design and price was sorted out. Why would someone opt for a smaller more cramped boat for similar money to your larger better designed (because you could have the internal layout that worked for you) boat?

Henry :)
 
petem said:
Others will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that the production lines and skills may be quite different for 40, 55 and 70 foot boats.
Click to expand...
none commented on this one, I very much doubt it is tbh. A big plastic tub where ppl walkabout fitting bits then the lid comes on and more people working on it to completion...

petem said:
And also, don't be surprised if another builder nicks your sale when a punter wants a 46 or 50 footer (both popular sizes).
Click to expand...

I think if the option is:

A. go down
B. reduce the product range and survive

I'd opt for B and try and make my fewer products desirable.

I can understand why comparisons with mass produced items doesn't work (cars, mobiles) but there MUST be economies of scale and production lines that work faster if they only have 3 jigs and 3 wiring looms and 5 types of portlights and whatever this and that rather than 4X more

cheers

V.
 
vas said:
I think if the option is:

A. go down
B. reduce the product range and survive

I'd opt for B and try and make my fewer products desirable.

I can understand why comparisons with mass produced items doesn't work (cars, mobiles) but there MUST be economies of scale and production lines that work faster if they only have 3 jigs and 3 wiring looms and 5 types of portlights and whatever this and that rather than 4X more
Click to expand...

+1
 
vas said:
I can understand why comparisons with mass produced items doesn't work (cars, mobiles) but there MUST be economies of scale and production lines that work faster if they only have 3 jigs and 3 wiring looms and 5 types of portlights and whatever this and that rather than 4X more

cheers

V.
Click to expand...


That's still building boats as now, or Sealine 25 years ago, you need one mould that will produce a hull between 40 and 70 foot, then a range of plug and go standard modules that make up the required layout.

Simple

Brian
 
admillington said:
This is the boats.co.uk effect - They are offering a great managed service headed up by Nick Barke.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, but the point I was making is that UK boats are still selling and being delivered which is good news and goes against the doom and gloom being pushed here.

Boats UK are setting up in Cala d'Or very rapidly with more and more stall arriving weekly it seems.

I have yet to meet a dissatisfied customer who regrets buying from the Essex boys.:encouragement:

With regards to Fairline I have no knowledge as to what is happening at the factory but if boats are being finished I would GUESS that they are old Boats UK orders being finished off so that their customers do not suffer and that the equipment being installed is supplied by Boats UK on a retained ownership, free issue basis.
 
Last edited:
BlueJasper said:
Well I was a dissatisfied customer who regrets buying from the Essex cowboys. Never again.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that and I hope you obtained satisfaction.

As I said I have never met a dissatisfied Boats UK customer but at least I have now heard of one. Not trying to be funny at your expense just stating a fact.

No intention in prying into the experience you had with Boats UK but did you continue with boating?
 
That's unusual. I have bought one used and one new and frankly the service is so astonishingly good I would never consider buying from elsewhere. Why take the risk. Essex support what they sell and are nice to deal with.
 
henryf said:
I don't agree with you. You are still thinking in terms of traditional, non profit making, boat builder mentality. An iPhone and a Mac do very different roles. I couldn't edit photos and run my business from an iPhone. Essentially all boats made by Princess do the same job. You just get more space inside. But essentially they all get used for weekends away, the odd longer trip each year and then many go to sleep over the winter. They all have a fuel tank which essentially allows 10 hours on the plane at either side of 30 knots (30 knot = 34.5 mph).

If an iPhone is a leisure boat then a MacBook is a fishing trawler and a Mac a small car ferry. Princess don't build fishing boats, container ships, car ferries and cruise liners. They just concentrate on a very narrow window. The problem is they have too many models.

You talk about Porsche having 60 models. No they don't. You do realise that a Boster S Black edition and a Boxster S are essentially the same car don't you? They don't go out and design a new car from the ground up like Princess. The bodyshell is identical and as has already been mentioned Porsche even share some platforms with other builders.

It's like trying to argue that a boat with Volvo D11 engines is a completely different model to the same boat with CAT C12 engines. It isn't.

Put price to one side for a moment and look at the Princess range. There are so many models that essentially do the same job. One may have a galley behind the lower helm, another by the doors out to the cockpit, another below decks but that could all be achieved within the same boat as spec options. As it is they build a whole new hull and design a whole new boat. At circa 65 feet there's enough space to do what ever you want.

Princess essentially charge £100,000 per extra foot of length which by anyone's measure is quite a lot given all the basics have already been covered in the previous model lower down the line. Engine, air con, sink, beds, settees, toilets, batteries, charger, genny, etc.

So how would it be with just a 40, 50, 60 and 70 foot boat in the range which allowed a series of pre-designed layout changes inside. If you were really brave you might even develop the S class and do away with the V and flybridge concepts all together.

I might even argue 40, 55, 70 and 85 feet. As I say, forget current pricing for the moment because those prices reflect huge development costs for each 4 foot increase across 2 or 3 different platforms, (flybridge, V and S class).

All of a sudden you've slashed your development coasts, enjoy healthy scale of economy benefits and can start to build profitable boats which are great value for money. You can even start to look at manufacturing processes previously unavailable due to the 1 off nature of your models.

Henry :)
Click to expand...

But, to the manufacturer, all those different devices do the same thing - you might use them differently (just as you wouldn't use a Cayenne the same way as GT3 RS) - but they are basically the same thing. And I absolutely take your point about the Porsche range being variants on 5 or 6 basic designs (and even then with some commonality amongst them) but it's exactly the same for Apple, except that, in technology, appearance and size are probaby the easiest things to change. I sort of agree with you about Princess but I fail to see any real difference between having two otherwise identical models, one galley up and one galley down, and one model with an option for galley up or galley down.
 
At the moment they don't have otherwise identical models. Just in the smaller flybridge they have one hull with a mid galley, a couple of different hulls with an aft galley, another hull 4 feet longer with a galley behind the lower helm and so on. Then it starts all over with sports boats and then a bit further up the range with the "hybrid" S class.

I think Its important to see anchor models with options rather than different models based on sort of the same boat for fear of drifting back into the realms of 27 different models loads of design costs and no scale of economy.

Henry :)
 
There is no longer an entry into a new boat for the "average" Joe public. 13 years ago we bought a new boat and still have it. Today the price for the equivalent is almost 3 x more, my disposable income hasn't risen anywhere near as a percentage of the cost increase to be able to consider a new boat.

I can't think of many if any luxury items, which aren't precious, that don't offer better value for money today than they did 13 years ago except boats, nothing much has changed except for the cost, massively upwards with no apparent increase in value for money.
New boats made by the likes of FL/P/SS have priced themselves out of the aspirational purchasers reach and are now really only available to the higher earners at top end of the highest 1%.
99.8% of the buying public are excluded from buying one of the Brit 3's boats. They have managed to aspire to the old generalisation of "Gin Palaces" and "Snotty Yachties".
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top