Expired UK Passport?

[billskip]

What does France do for its foreign nationals

Dunno, but when I was wintering in a boat yard in Greece back in 2000, the Liveaboard French man on the next to me boat (living off French social security) all he had to do was phone them every 90 day's...(well that's what he told me)

 

[Fr J Hackett]

In all your years at work you never made a mistake? None of your other colleagues ever slipped up and sent the wrong template letter? That’s impressive - maybe your moniker is because you are holier than thou.

Most of the benefit systems have been digitised - are you sure you want your pension moved that way? I’m not the government so it’s not really my role to answer your vague claims of chaos in the benefits system - stuff does go wrong, sometimes in part because those on benefits might not always be the best people at sorting out their own admin/understanding processes/using technology. The reality actually in the UK, rather than whatever media version of the UK you are listening to is that most stuff actually does work! Of course a small % of stuff goes wrong, sometimes quite inexplicably, but anyone who tells you it never happens in their company/country is talking shite.

In an admitted very small sample two people on here have exactly the same problem.

 

[westernman]

The UK passport application system is weird.

You can apply online, upload a photo, etc.
But I had to mail in a physical copy of my French passport and my expired UK passport.
Then I had to mail a physical letter and copy of other documents as well to explain the difference in middle names.
Why could I not do all that by email? Except may be for the expired passport.

Then I receive three DHL packages.
1) Expired UK passport and the photo copy I had sent of my French passport
2) New UK passport
3) The other photo copies I had sent.

Why did they turn those worthless photocopies??

The courier guy just gave all three packages to the first person answered the door at my office. No signature.

It was reasonably quick though.

 

[Neeves]

It was sent in September and they confirmed receipt by e mail. They will certainly be getting a phone call on Monday. This letter was sent on the 30th of December I had received the e mail late November.

If you are telephoning expect to wait a long time in a queue, have emergency rations and drink at hand.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Its going to be interesting.

Airlines have the responsibility to define if passengers have the correct documentation.

Many in the ex colonies do not know they are dual citizens, they dropped renewing their UK passport years ago (or recently). When they travel they use the passport of which they are, also, a citizen.

How will an airline determine if a passenger is a UK citizen. If they reject the passenger there are going to be some significant arguments, long queues and disgruntled passengers.


AFAIK pensions don't impinge on any of this. You don't need a passport to be a citizen (there must by thousands of UK citizens who do not have a passport). Your UK pension is awarded because you paid into the UK pension scheme, not because you were a citizen. f you do not renouce citizenship - you will retain the honour (and be a citizen until you die).


I have no urgent need to visit the UK. I have no desire to visit the UK. For us the journey from home to the location of a bed in the UK - takes 35 hours. Life is too short to spend that amount of timing going to a country that has no appeal. Its expensive, the city centres are ghettoes, the motorways are too crowded (I'd need a new passport). I'm maybe fortunate as I can sit back and watch how it all develops over the next 6? weeks. If the relatives want to see me they can come to Oz or we can meet in a mutually accepted location, Oslo, Amsterdam, Dieppe, Bangkok, etc - and make a holiday of it.


I believe renouncing UK citizen ship costs stg1,000 and a new UK passport stg100 (if push comes to shove )- the passport is the obvious answer.

Jonathan

 

[ylop]

Its going to be interesting.

Airlines have the responsibility to define if passengers have the correct documentation.

Many in the ex colonies do not know they are dual citizens, they dropped renewing their UK passport years ago (or recently). When they travel they use the passport of which they are, also, a citizen.

How will an airline determine if a passenger is a UK citizen. If they reject the passenger there are going to be some significant arguments, long queues and disgruntled passengers.

A passenger coming to the UK on a foreign passport will now require an “ETA”. Airlines will be checking the validity of the ETA as they do for the equivalents in other countries.

If you are British Citizen you cannot apply for an ETA. I have no idea (and perhaps neither do the home office!) if someone who completes the ETA saying they were only an Australian citizen but who is a long expired uk passport holder would be spotted and refused an ETA.

The ETA costs £16, is valid for 2 yrs and may take up to 3 days to be issued (or refused).

AFAIK pensions don't impinge on any of this. You don't need a passport to be a citizen (there must by thousands of UK citizens who do not have a passport). Your UK pension is awarded because you paid into the UK pension scheme, not because you were a citizen. f you do not renouce citizenship - you will retain the honour (and be a citizen until you die).

Yes the pension question came up because I suggested that people who don’t want to retain the inconvenience of having a valid passport and how seem to have fallen out of love with their homeland might renounce their rights. (I didn’t realise there was a cost).

As far as I can see renouncing citizenship doesn’t sacrifice pension entitlement. (Which makes sense as a French national living in the UK still earns pension rights and can receive the pension if they return to France).

I believe renouncing UK citizen ship costs stg1,000 and a new UK passport stg100 (if push comes to shove )- the passport is the obvious answer.

I think it is less than that but you are right it is much cheaper to just renew the passport, you can also have a special entry in your other passport but again much more expensive than just renewing the UK one.

 

[newtothis]

I'm en route back from NZ, where this year been in the news a lot, sure to the large number of UK expats/economic migrants there. Many of these have let their UK passports expire after gaining NZ ones, as they can visit the UK on the NZ passport alone. Until now.
I travel to NZ on my kiwi passport and back to the UK on my UK one but it means maintaining two, not always affordable to some older travellers who don't travel that often.

 

[Neeves]

I'm en route back from NZ, where this year been in the news a lot, sure to the large number of UK expats/economic migrants there. Many of these have let their UK passports expire after gaining NZ ones, as they can visit the UK on the NZ passport alone. Until now.
I travel to NZ on my kiwi passport and back to the UK on my UK one but it means maintaining two, not always affordable to some older travellers who don't travel that often.

My understanding is this is incorrect.

Letting you UK passport expire and thinking you can visit the UK on your NZ (or Oz) passport should not work. You are still a citizen and are required to enter the UK with a British passport.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

On the periphery of all of this.....

I understand that if you UK passport is recently (how recent?) expired the recently expired passport can be used to substantiate many of the requirements of applying for a new passport. Passports do have a use by time, again I don't know what the requirements are.

Jonathan

 

[newtothis]

My understanding is this is incorrect.

Letting you UK passport expire and thinking you can visit the UK on your NZ (or Oz) passport should not work. You are still a citizen and are required to enter the UK with a British passport.

Jonathan

It is correct until Feb 25. After that you can't use an NZ passport to return to the UK if you are aUK citizen. Your choices are
Pay for a new UK passport
Pay for a Certificate of Entitlement to attach to your NZ passport
Pay to renounce your UK citizenship.

How new passport rules for UK and Ireland dual citizens will work

 

[pretzel_logic]

Whilst the new rules are confusing, there is no way that a UK national can be refused entry to the UK by UK immigration, whether or not their passport is valid or expired. As a UK national you have an absolute right of entry to the UK and cannot be detained further once your nationality has been established.

Of course being allowed on the plane to travel to the UK might be a different matter...

 

[syvictoria]

As a UK national you have an absolute right of entry to the UK and cannot be detained further once your nationality has been established.

I hope that this is correct, and I plan to test the theory in due course! I assume that a birth cert should be enough to prove UK citizenship (and if you happen to have UK driving licence, bank, council tax bill... all the better)? As I will almost certainly enter the UK at Dover, hopefully I'll be able to argue my case there in person, not on an airline's website which would almost certainly prove more of a challenge.

There has,  BTW, been a couple of news items relating to this on The Local in the last couple of weeks. They are hopefully making waves with the powers that be...

 

[pretzel_logic]

I hope that this is correct, and I plan to test the theory in due course! I assume that a birth cert should be enough to prove UK citizenship (and if you happen to have UK driving licence, bank, council tax bill... all the better)? As I will almost certainly enter the UK at Dover, hopefully I'll be able to argue my case there in person, not on an airline's website which would almost certainly prove more of a challenge.

There has,  BTW, been a couple of news items relating to this on The Local in the last couple of weeks. They are hopefully making waves with the powers that be...

It is correct. You cannot be refused entry to the UK as a UK citizen.

The best thing you can have is a passport, either current or expired, since that is the one thing that proves nationality. Driving licence, council tax bill, bank account etc, do not prove nationality. That's not to say a Driving licence can't be used - a further check on the Immigration database would need to be done to match you up and a D/L can help as it has a picture. But a PP (expired) is best since that can be run through the machine easily.

However actually getting to Dover (boarding the train/ferry etc) may present problems.

 

[newtothis]

I hope that this is correct, and I plan to test the theory in due course! I assume that a birth cert should be enough to prove UK citizenship (and if you happen to have UK driving licence, bank, council tax bill... all the better)? As I will almost certainly enter the UK at Dover, hopefully I'll be able to argue my case there in person, not on an airline's website which would almost certainly prove more of a challenge.

There has,  BTW, been a couple of news items relating to this on The Local in the last couple of weeks. They are hopefully making waves with the powers that be...

You've used your UK passport to exit the country, presumably, so why not just use that to get back in, instead of taking your council tax bill to prove a point.
Not sure what the requirements are for ferries regarding passport control but I presume they don't let you on one without sufficient proof you're allowed off at the other end.

 

[westernman]

I hope that this is correct, and I plan to test the theory in due course! I assume that a birth cert should be enough to prove UK citizenship (and if you happen to have UK driving licence, bank, council tax bill... all the better)? As I will almost certainly enter the UK at Dover, hopefully I'll be able to argue my case there in person, not on an airline's website which would almost certainly prove more of a challenge.

There has,  BTW, been a couple of news items relating to this on The Local in the last couple of weeks. They are hopefully making waves with the powers that be...

In the UK there are 3 official ways to prove identity:-

1. current valid passport for any country
2. current biometric residence permit for the UK
3. current full or provisional photo card driving licence from the UK, Isle of Man or Channel Islands

It would seem that an expired UK passport is not adequate.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

And if you are a duel national, what all this started as then it's a valid UK passport or a £1000 Brexit voucher.

 

[syvictoria]

You've used your UK passport to exit the country, presumably, so why not just use that to get back in, instead of taking your council tax bill to prove a point.
Not sure what the requirements are for ferries regarding passport control but I presume they don't let you on one without sufficient proof you're allowed off at the other end.

I'm a dual citizen and will be using a valid foreign passport to exit.

Re getting on the ferry to Dover. UK passport control is at Calais/Dunkerque and so you're already 'in' by the time you check in at the ferry.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I'm a dual citizen and will be using a valid foreign passport to exit.

Re getting on the ferry to Dover. UK passport control is at Calais/Dunkerque and so you're already 'in' by the time you check in at the ferry.

It's the entry to the UK that is the question and since the 5th of February for a duel national it is only a valid UK passport or a certificate of something or other which costs either £600 or £1000 I forget which. It is all about right of abode not identity.

 

[syvictoria]

It's the entry to the UK that is the question and since the 5th of February for a duel national it is only a valid UK passport or a certificate of something or other which costs either £600 or £1000 I forget which. It is all about right of abode not identity.

As for as I understand it, all UK citizens have a right to abode in the UK.

AFAIK, the UK has no legal right (under current laws) to force UK citizens to enter the UK on a British passport (unlike, for example, America). Transport carriers can refuse boarding, but that's (much?) less likely to be an issue at Calais/Dunkerque due to the juxtaposed border controls. The Home Office threaten possible delays and additional questioning at the border, but they don't seem to categorically state refusal of entry to the UK for UK citizens as a possible consequence - I don't think that they legally can... Time will tell!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

As for as I understand it, all UK citizens have a right to abode in the UK.

AFAIK, the UK has no legal right (under current laws) to force UK citizens to enter the UK on a British passport (unlike, for example, America). Transport carriers can refuse boarding, but that's (much?) less likely to be an issue at Calais/Dunkerque due to the juxtaposed border controls. The Home Office threaten possible delays and additional questioning at the border, but they don't seem to categorically state refusal of entry to the UK for UK citizens as a possible consequence - I don't think that they legally can... Time will tell!

I would take some sandwiches and a flask if I were you as you could be quite some time arguing your case