Excel empty!

no I did, my next show I am planning should be Fort Lauderdale 09, I want to touch something different from Genoa after going loads of times there, and I am sure no show in EU is good as this for boats, which is i want to see in a show not chandlery
I like that too but boats is what really gets my attention

good job Richard and well done for your targets I am glad you did well /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Of course you can like or dislike whichever show you care to, but thats just your take on it. I think we all know your view on LBS, from 2007 comments alone. No change there , then.
But comments like this "LIBS has just become a showcase for the Big 4 motorboat builders " simply are not justified in my opinion. There were plenty of different boats and builders. I m not going to suggest the place had a roaring buzz to it, or that exhibitors were not thinner on the ground.
No, it wasnt the greatest boat show I ve been to, but bloody hell, just read the newspapers... not exactly surprising.
Well, lets see SBS- that great showcase of UK boating.
Another 9 months of this economic disaster and there might not be anyone /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Go to Dusseldorf and compare the variety of different manufacturers there and then say there are 'plenty of different builders and boats' at LIBS
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I talked with the guy selling Windys which we also sell, he told me the Fairline engineers had been onboard the new Chinook and Triton and said as they left that they were now worried

[/ QUOTE ]

And of course a Windy salesman would never make something like that up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But didn't they get a hammering from MBY for very poor quality??
 
or even just go to Cannes, much smaller show in theory, many many more boats and manufacturers in attendance. We really are insular when thinking about the boat market in the UK, brand such as SS and FLine really aren't the dominant players in the EU that we tend to think they are from the UK perspective. It is a real eye opener when you go to Cannes or Genoa and you see the variety of boat manufacturers that simply cannot be bothered to come to the UK shores because in terms of the market opportunity it simply isn't worth it.
 
Copy of email to Andrew Williams, Managing Director, National Boat Shows.

Opinions welcome:

PROPORTIONAL COST OF BOAT SHOW SPACE

As you will be well aware, the marine industry has experienced a significant downturn as a result of the economic climate that has presented itself over the past year, in line with the rest of the UK retail industry.

This has necessitated many companies to restructure overheads and expenditure to counter reduced demand for product.

A major overhead for many companies within the marine industry is Boat Shows, namely SIBS and LIBS. They are generally perceived to be a key medium of targeting potential audience in a relatively niche market.

However, the extensive costs relating to these shows need sales to support them and in a declining market, where these sales aren’t being achieved, it is likely that this expenditure will be one of the first to be reduced.

I believe this is why there has been a reduction in the number of exhibitors at LIBS 2009, and it is my opinion that this trend will be exaggerated at SIBS 2009, as exhibitors will need to confirm requirements shortly.

It may be fair to say that these shows have come to be regarded as marketing exercises, to remain visible within the industry albeit at an unrecoverable cost, whereas perhaps they should really be an opportunity for exhibitors to make profit generating sales?

The net result of this adjustment is a reduction in product on display, which ultimately has a negative effect as visitors become critical and despondent because the show fails to deliver the desired level of entertainment or excitement.

In my opinion the future direction for SIBS/LIBS should be to provide a diverse mix of product, from entry level watersports such as windsurfers/canoes/rowing boats (under £500?) right through to multi-million pound craft.

This immediately provides for a broader base of potential visitors which will increase visitor numbers for the organisers, and improves exhibitors’ prospects of making sales.

The problem at the moment is the shows are just too expensive for exhibitors. The number of sales which have to be achieved just to recover the cost of exhibiting far exceeds what can be realistically expected in today’s marketplace.

I propose a new structure whereby the cost of exhibition space at SIBS/LIBS is calculated on a proportional scale in relation to company turnover. BMF membership is already calculated in this manner so, as a subsidiary of the BMF, NBS already have access to this information. It is in the interest of exhibitors to be BMF members to attract the currently available discount structure, so should be easy to implement.

I believe that such a structured scale of cost would open the door to bring back the smaller exhibitors. It may mean that the cost would have to increase for companies with a higher turnover, to enable NBS to balance the books, but this suggests that exhibitors should quantify their presence at the show by how much space they are prepared/can afford to pay for?

As an example, if “ABC Marine” was selling an entry level product at LIBS 2009, say a small dinghy priced at £500 + VAT, they would need a stand of say 16 square metres (4m x 4m), which at the 2009 price of £148.10 per square metre would cost £2,369.60. On top of this add a conservative figure of £1,500.00 for 14 night’s accommodation and expenses (to allow for build up and breakdown) and maybe £600.00 for stand materials and electric supply to run a laptop/vacuum cleaner. Add another £500.00 for transporting the boats to and from the show and parking of vehicles. This gives a total expenditure of around £5,000.00.

Assuming ABC’s retail price is £500.00 per unit they might have a margin of £100.00 per unit. This means they have to sell 50 units at, or as a direct result, of the show just to break even. If they have to discount to sell they need to sell even more.

Maybe it isn’t realistic to sell a boat for £500.00, but the point of the example is everything is proportionate, so the bigger/more expensive the product the costs/profit increase proportionately, meaning current fixed pricing levels and/or the size of stands make exhibiting extremely expensive, whatever the scale of the company.
 
I can understand the sentiments but it's basically inviting NBS to commit commercial suicide. He is proposing that the higher a company's turnover, the more expensive the stand space should be per sq.m which directly penalises the major boat builders who take the most space. IMHO, this would just encourage them not to attend (as Sealine did this year) and without the major exhibitors, LIBS/SIBS is dead; there would be a lot of unhappy visitors if LIBS/SIBS consisted of a load of chandleries and a few small boats and there were no gin palaces to ogle. Anyway it's contrary to normal business practice in that the more you buy the lesser unit cost you pay
What I saw at LIBS was not a lack of small exhibitors but a lack of medium and large sized exhibitors
 
Have to agree with Mike, but maybe there is a middle ground with some discounted space for dealers selling boats under £X,000's. Providing X is small enough, I doubt this would upset the bigger boat companies too much.
 
but I m not going to Dusseldorf.. its not a competition!
To me, the majority of your posts about LBS are very negative. Thats fine.. pop of to Germany to choose your boat, but I dont see LBS as bad as you constantly claim. OK, so maybe there is a better show somewhere else in the world. Fine. Enjoy that one. Meantime, some of us perhaps would rather be able to go to LBS than not go anywhere...
Why not just stop knocking it. We know that you arent a fan.
 
[ QUOTE ]
NBS is a subsidiary of the British Marine Federation (BMF), the trade association for the UK boating industry. Run by the industry, for the industry, the profits from both shows are reinvested back into the UK leisure marine industry through the services and representation provided by the BMF.

[/ QUOTE ]
source

Surely the members of the BMF have a say on what the charges levied are and even the small guys (if BMF members) have equal say? It's all well and good saying "oh, but the little man..." if he is unhappy, he can lobby his organisation to change it!
 
Although my example was based around the extreme cheapest end of the market my point really is that it would appear, generally across the board, that the concensus is that the show is too great a cost.

As you mention, Sealine were not there, along with a lack of medium and large builders/dealers. If that is the start of a trend then surely lack of exhibitors is just as much commercial suicide for NBS?

I guess it really depends what NBS to achieve from the show? My opinion from comments on these forums was that visitors were looking for a broader range of product, citing the "old days" back at EC. As far as I can see the most critical factor for NBS is people through the door, so it seems like the logical solution to boost the show is to give the visitors what they are looking for.

So I guess the question is what are boat show visitors really looking for?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
But it is a competition! Why are Sealine at Dusseldorf and not LIBS? Why are there so few foreign builders at LIBS? It's because they think Dusseldorf is better
Yup I am negative about LIBS because I am angry that, yet again, another British industry is losing out to the foreigners. LIBS was around before Dusseldorf was even an idea in somebody's head and yet here we are, years later with LIBS as a sideshow and Dusseldorf as the main event. For heaven's sake, Germany has hardly got a boat building industry and yet Dusseldorf is Europe's biggest boat exhibition. Even the bloody Italians have got a bigger boat show than us! How did this happen? IMHO, it happened because the LIBS organisers failed to capitalize on LIBS's preeminent position as Europe's premier show by failing to locate it at the right venue, getting the timing wrong and allowing it to become not much better than an in-house boat show for the big 4 UK boat builders (3 this year)

Rant over
 
Why are Sealine at Dusseldorf and not LIBS
*****
coz abroad they have euros and can afford UK boats!
Never mind..I enjoyed LBS and wouldnt bother to travel to Dusseldorf. Eack to his own, eh ?!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Will be interesting to see how the big boys report their orders.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't report numbers this year. AFAIK they're under no compulsion to, so they only report for PR reasons. I know the exact numbers for one of the big 4 (can't say) and while it was less than last year it was still an impressive number. Quite remarkable, in view of the economy (which gets worse by the day; lucky LIBS wasn't a week later). And I'm talking proper orders with deposit cheques from customers

The margins from these sales cover the stand cost, several times over.

Of course it is hard to know which orders a builder would have got anyway if not exhibiting at the show. But I reckon several boats are sold just cos of the show (mine was directly as a result of SIBS)
 
[ QUOTE ]
This dropped in my inbox earlier you may find it interesting reading. Ahh the link does not work but look at the lbs story in news.

http://www.boatingbusiness.com

[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif written by the monty phyton team no doubt, inspired by alice in wonderland.

PS: Shhh! Don't tell the others, never beleive all you read in the media.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Will be interesting to see how the big boys report their orders.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't report numbers this year. AFAIK they're under no compulsion to, so they only report for PR reasons. I know the exact numbers for one of the big 4 (can't say) and while it was less than last year it was still an impressive number. Quite remarkable, in view of the economy (which gets worse by the day; lucky LIBS wasn't a week later). And I'm talking proper orders with deposit cheques from customers

The margins from these sales cover the stand cost, several times over.

Of course it is hard to know which orders a builder would have got anyway if not exhibiting at the show. But I reckon several boats are sold just cos of the show (mine was directly as a result of SIBS)

[/ QUOTE ]

I have bought two new boats in the past, so I have some experience. Boat show deposits are usually refundable and are just to hold the deal for a week. It's quite common for people to place a deposit with several companies to give them time to raise the funds and/or make a final decision.
In the current climate having placed a refundable deposit - cancelling the order would be the perfect opportunity for getting a further discount. No company is going to let a live customer escape easily.
An order is only a proper order when the finalcontract is signed, this rarely happens at the show and orders taken at the show have a habit of dissapearing in the weeks afterwards.
 
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