Ethnic minorities and sailing.

[convey]

In which case you accept some cultures are "second quality" and that the unsustainable West is a good example of a "second quality" culture.

Never mind second place, it would not even make it into a second division. We're like the Millwall Bushwackers of the sustainable football league.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It's worth remembering that in the Bible, the sea is always a symbol of chaos and evil - hence the verses in Revelation that speak of "and the sea shall be more" when describing a future, perfect state.

Of course, in our culture, we see the sea as the great pathway between nations and continents; something which sailing on the west coast of Scotland brings home very quickly. But in others, it is still a symbol of primaeval chaos.

I was taught that the "sea" is the people and their society. In revelation the beast that rises from the sea, is a metaphor for the evil that rises from people and their society by rejecting Christ; same for the Harlot that sits on the waters i.e. people and societies support the harlot. It was along time ago, maybe I am wrong, but your post struck a chord.

 

[dom]

Quite possibly your experience, however (as noted some pages ago) I went to an ethnically-mixed school in the 1970s with a sizeable proportion of Jewish, as well as lots of Asian and some Chinese and black boys. My memory is of Jewish boys playing all sports with some particularly excelling at rugby and water-polo, fives....

Perhaps his reference to school in the 1940s has some bearing on the observation?

You don't still play squash and/or fives per chance?

 

[Babylon]

Perhaps his reference to school in the 1940s has some bearing on the observation?

You don't still play squash and/or fives per chance?

You're no doubt right - and there is now a greater span of years between the 1970s and the present than there even was between the 1940s and 70s.

The last game of squash I remember was at college when Twentyman's backside (mature student, ex army officer) got in the way of the way my racket just as I was giving the ball a massive forehand strike... game aborted due to broken equipment!! Shortly afterwards I broke my central ankle bone running and had to give up tennis. That was a shame as I'd recently been playing with a Jewish guy called Miguel who used to be a junior international for Argentina and - although I always lost - my game had rocketed as a result.

The fives player was a guy called Neil who's dad a was a dentist. The water-polo player was called Daniel whose dad was an interior-designer, the guy who walked the Pennine Way was Mark. The rugby player was called Rheinhart, forgotten his first name. Had they been playing in Fiddler on the Roof, Neil would have been cast as a Russian, Daniel one of the two guys having an argument and Mark's other role would have been as Harpo Marx's understudy.

Ashwin became a doctor, Dave from Liverpool joined the Paras, Bruce went to Hong Kong to become a policeman, Jenkins wound up working for the Milk Marketing Board, and I have little doubt that the vicious little squirt from Catford became an organiser for the National Front.

All sorts, really, just like life.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I was taught that the "sea" is the people and their society. In revelation the beast that rises from the sea, is a metaphor for the evil that rises from people and their society by rejecting Christ; same for the Harlot that sits on the waters i.e. people and societies support the harlot. It was along time ago, maybe I am wrong, but your post struck a chord.

An interesting alternative interpretation; I'll bear it in mind! And there's no reason why both can't be true; your interpretation is a narrowing of the one I know. But throughout the Bible - from Genesis onward - the sea is the symbol of chaos and evil; I just took the Revelation quote as one that is well known and which might strike a chord with yachtspeople!

 

[Babylon]

Water is symbolic of the unconscious, hence the originator of these biblical references?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Not wanting to drift the the thread, thanks for the comments AntarticPilot and Babylon. These insights is what makes the forum and interesting place.

 

[dom]

Water is symbolic of the unconscious, hence the originator of these biblical references?

Indeed, as Carl Jung explains:

"Water is the commonest symbol for the unconscious. The lake in the valley is the unconscious, which lies, as it were, underneath consciousness, so that it is often referred to as the "subconscious," usually with the pejorative connotation of an inferior consciousness. Water is the "valley spirit," the water dragon of Tao, whose nature resembles water-a yang embraced in the yin. Psychologically, therefore, water means spirit that has become unconscious.​

​

So the dream of the theologian is quite right in telling him that down by the water he could experience the working of the living spirit like a miracle of healing in the pool of Bethesda.​

​

The descent into the depths always seems to precede the ascent. "​

​

And:

"I know every numbskull will babble on about "black man," "maneater," "chance," and "retrospective interpretation," in order to banish something terribly inconvenient that might sully the familiar picture of childhood innocence.​

​

Ah, these good, efficient, healthy-minded people, they always remind me of those optimistic tadpoles who bask in a puddle in the sun, in the shallowest of waters, crowding together and amiably wriggling their tails, totally unaware that the next morning the puddle will have dried up and left them stranded."​

​

 

[convey]

One of the best insights into the development of the ideas of gods and religions that I read, was that they arose due to a simple lack of understanding of meteorology. In short, that they are all rooted in attempts to predict and explain weather patterns that, again, held the power of life and death over the people.


There was an old racist joke about why Black people ran fast, didn't ride horses and were afraid of dogs, all going back to their treatment as slaves by overseers that may or may not have some verity, based on our developing knowledge of genetically based memories. Might a similar equation not be drawn for those from landlocked regions in Africa and Asia? But, whether they were or were not, water was always synonymous with death and danger, even rivers and waterholes would attract deadly predators and, hence, be shied away from.

Our Scottish friend above makes a good point regarding peoples for who rivers and coastal sailing were their highways, where roads were impossible, and hence a different relationship with it.

I'm still scratching my head over comments that not participating in sailing is somehow not integrating with being British though.

Personally, I got my boat partly to get away from the "joys" of modern city soundscapes that are dominated by anti-social Black music influences, and if anyone intends to make them a feature of our coastal lives, I'm going full Redbeard on their asses. Imagine how far sound would travel from a set of bass bins fitted into a GRP boat.

Sadly, it has already started on urban waterways, with BAME constant cruisers blaring out their amplified beats from boats.

 

[dom]

Personally, I got my boat partly to get away from the "joys" of modern city soundscapes that are dominated by anti-social Black music influences and if anyone intends to make them a feature of our coastal lives, I'm going full Redbeard on their asses.

You didn't work for MTV in the early-80s by chance?

Here's a fab interview - well worth a listening to!

 

[Kukri]

I think we make far too much of “cultures”. Most people now belong to the same culture; one very largely shaped by American films and television, and now by the Interthing and the social media that live there.
Culturally we all share a very great deal. Far more than most of our grandparents did.

 

[Kukri]

The Japanese are widely admired for their seamanship. This video (don’t bother with the sound, it’s just wind noise) of a Japanese Coast Guard cutter putting to sea in extremely heavy weather always impresses me:

 

[dom]

The Japanese are widely admired for their seamanship. This video (don’t bother with the sound, it’s just wind noise) of a Japanese Coast Guard cutter putting to sea in extremely heavy weather always impresses me:

Typical AWB; I can't see an old Westerly bouncing around like that!

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Japanese are widely admired for their seamanship. This video (don’t bother with the sound, it’s just wind noise) of a Japanese Coast Guard cutter putting to sea in extremely heavy weather always impresses me:

Bilmey. The way they use the roll back after the vicious roll to port in order to bring the bows round is deeply impressive. I wonder if condition like this explain why Japanese fishing boats all seem to have very flared bows?

 

[convey]

I wonder if condition like this explain why Japanese fishing boats all seem to have very flared bows?

I was going to say, that interests me as well. Very high prows also. Although some of the traditional boats have similar features, I've not seen it translated into sailing boats.

As far as I understand, Japan is mostly mountain going straight into the sea, sometime very deep sea. Very few long, shallow coast. I'd have to read up on wave patterns to work out what was going on.

 

[Kukri]

Thirty odd years ago I had the pleasure (and it was a real pleasure) of dealing with the Miho shipyard in Shimizu. We built five small container ships there, but their regular customers were Spliethoffs, and their own parent, Mitsubishi, for tuna super seiners, plus the Maritime Safety Agency for cutters like the one in the video.

Their enthusiasm, expertise and integrity were really quite something. The last of those five ships is off to Alang to be turned into rebars as I write, after thirty years. Oh, and, according to my counterpart at Mitsubishi Corporation, “Shimizu has a geisha house. With the oldest geisha in Japan!” Very charming they were, too. They did have one maiko, and I remember having to explain to a colleague that on a Chief Engineer’s salary he could not afford to even think about asking her out!?

The shipyard was turned into a marina some years ago. Yes, a marina. Japanese production cruisers were amongst the first to have no overhangs, and this was not un-connected to berthing charges in Japanese marinas.

 

[Tomahawk]

People build ships to take account of the local seas... and materials. The flared bows on those Japanese boats are very similar to Greek fishing boats, but very different to Thames barges or Tjalcks (how DO you dpell that word?)

 

[convey]

Tjalk.

 

[Kukri]

You didn't work for MTV in the early-80s by chance?

Here's a fab interview - well worth a listening to!

I am gobsmacked. Thank you.

 

[BrendanS]

I am gobsmacked. Thank you.

Equally gobsmacked. He was always high in my estimation, sky high, now stratospheric