Ethnic minorities and sailing.

[BrendanS]

Nice to see the likes of you, MarkCX, and many others speak out The trouble is, a side effect of comments such as those you highlight is their tendency to hijack threads and turn them into pointless slanging matches.

Trolls love it, but over time the forum loses its friendly buzz as saily types drift away.

I can't be the only one who has noticed this happening.

Sad

It's not a recent thing. Going back to the start of the ybw forums when there were only a few forums, not the many we have now. Turban wearing lovely gent with boat on Thames - left because of prejudice. Lovely openly gay male couple who attended many boatshows and forum events - left because of prejudice. Lovely lesbian lady who came to several Wareham ybw meets - left because of prejudice. Lovely young female kid (Norfolk Broads way? was trying to do up a boat, and asked some questions about, so long ago I can't remember, may have been about replacing a windscreen, and was accused of being a troll as no 13 (ish, can't remember) year old female could possibly be trying to do up a boat - left because of prejudice. There are so many more I can't even remember most of them. What gets to me most, is that they were all positive contributors, not campaigning , just boat owners, and loved boating of all sorts. Driven out by prejudice.

 

[BrendanS]

You didn't work for MTV in the early-80s by chance?

Here's a fab interview - well worth a listening to!

this longer video puts it into perspective. So far ahead of his time, and so, so intelligent.

 

[convey]

Thanks, but he's talking about soul, motown, old fashioned R'n'B, not the mechanical jack hammer that passes for music I'm talking about.

It's not a recent thing. Going back to the start of the ybw forums when there were only a few forums, not the many we have now. Turban wearing lovely gent with boat on Thames - left because of prejudice. Lovely openly gay male couple who attended many boatshows and forum events - left because of prejudice. Lovely lesbian lady who came to several Wareham ybw meets - left because of prejudice. Lovely young female kid (Norfolk Broads way? was trying to do up a boat, and asked some questions about, so long ago I can't remember, may have been about replacing a windscreen, and was accused of being a troll as no 13 (ish, can't remember) year old female could possibly be trying to do up a boat - left because of prejudice. There are so many more I can't even remember most of them. What gets to me most, is that they were all positive contributors, not campaigning , just boat owners, and loved boating of all sorts. Driven out by prejudice.

Sorry to read but not surprised by any of that. Why turn a sailing forum into a political football driven by, which kind of politics?

Is it just that no one will speak to them in real life any more?

Can we extend the discussion to gender minorities? Least she be forgotten, Laura Dekker. There's some great videos of her talking about the work she is doing now on Youtube. Sadly some American outfit trashed her boat.

Saved up money from when she was an 8 year old. Bought own first boat at 11. Sailed around Holland by herself aged 13. Faced 8 court cases to allow her to sail alone. Forced by them to go up from a Hurley 22 to a 10m ketch. Set off around the world by herself aged 14. And did.

Should I expect, "Probably just a troll, because no 14 year old could possibly sail around the world by herself!"?

 

[dom]

It's not a recent thing. Going back to the start of the ybw forums when there were only a few forums, not the many we have now. Turban wearing lovely gent with boat on Thames - left because of prejudice. Lovely openly gay male couple who attended many boatshows and forum events - left because of prejudice. Lovely lesbian lady who came to several Wareham ybw meets - left because of prejudice. Lovely young female kid (Norfolk Broads way? was trying to do up a boat, and asked some questions about, so long ago I can't remember, may have been about replacing a windscreen, and was accused of being a troll as no 13 (ish, can't remember) year old female could possibly be trying to do up a boat - left because of prejudice. There are so many more I can't even remember most of them. What gets to me most, is that they were all positive contributors, not campaigning , just boat owners, and loved boating of all sorts. Driven out by prejudice.

Oh dear, that sounds systemic.

If it truly is, then at least part of the blame must lie at the feet of the editorial staff. If abusive posts are routinely deleted, then racist, anti-gay, and hateful comments should go too. No question.

 

[convey]

Attacking others as a "troll" just because they are different or think outside of your bubble is very tiresome.

 

[Kukri]

This place used to be quite vile. It has got rather better in recent years.

 

[zoidberg]

Likewise with the Cruising Association. I've just checked all their top-level pages and all their section pages and there ....... is hardly a face under retirement age to be seen either..... but again it doesn't look welcoming.

Not enough 'young totty' for you, then, 'jumbleduck'....?

 

[Babylon]

Not enough 'young totty' for you, then, 'jumbleduck'....?

Let's face it, there's never enough 'young totty' !! ?

 

[zoidberg]

When I was younger, and singler, I used to speculate about sailing 'with an all-girl crew'.
Now I have that.

Be very careful what you wish for!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not enough 'young totty' for you, then, 'jumbleduck'....?

In the Cruising Association, "young totty" appears to be any woman under 70 ...

 

[awol]

I'm not sure the term "young totty" has any place on a yachting forum. Encouraging young people to enjoy sailing is what we all should be doing but to alienate 50% by referring to them as "totty" is tasteless stupidity.

 

[Minchsailor]

JumbleDuck said:[/URL]
Likewise with the Cruising Association. I've just checked all their top-level pages and all their section pages and there ....... is hardly a face under retirement age to be seen either..... but again it doesn't look welcoming.

I can assure you that the CA, from personal experience, is rather more inclusive than it may appear.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I can assure you that the CA, from personal experience, is rather more inclusive than it may appear.

That's good to know. It's amazing how clueless organisations can be about the image they present. There used to be a Pony Club poster up in my local supermarket so awful that I wanted to steal it. Every single child on it was fair skinned, blond haired and blue eyed. The overall effect was of a partuclarly unsubtle recruiting poster for the Hitler Jugend.

 

[sails_02]

This place used to be quite vile. It has got rather better in recent years.

An Absolutely Terrifying Thought

 

[Babylon]

I'm not sure the term "young totty" has any place on a yachting forum. Encouraging young people to enjoy sailing is what we all should be doing but to alienate 50% by referring to them as "totty" is tasteless stupidity.

Just when the conversation gets a little bit light-hearted (specifically at the expense of His Jumbleship) along comes a boring, censorious, Calvinistic "old fart" to check your thinking !

I can assure you that the attractiveness to young people (let alone young women) of yachting (which is overwhelming an old persons activity) and the Cruising Association (an even older age profile) is not going to be in the slightest part effected by what you or I say on a yachting forum.

In Hong Kong you now get 10 years hard labour for expressing the "wrong" thought... that's something to get hot under the collar about!

 

[Minchsailor]

RYA Scotland planned a major push this year to increase diversity in sailing (and yachting) - sadly mostly now postponed.

As for clubs, their Committees seem to be usually dominated by the older members, as they are the ones how have the time and inclination to serve. In my experience they are naturally conservative and do not always welcome change to ‘their’ club.

Unconsciously, they organise events to self-perpetuate their club’s culture, such as the annual dinner in some dreary hotel where ‘black tie’ is the dress code. Hardly attractive for those of a group who may not naturally sympathise with that culture.

I have been on the committee of a couple of yacht clubs (an owners association, and a general yacht club) and a commodore of the latter; I attempted to change things. As a person who in my professional life has often had to upset the apple cart (engineering management) I found this was a huge challenge; and faced significant opposition from a considerable number of the members – but both clubs are now thriving with a much wider spread of members.

 

[[165264]]

Quite possibly your experience, however (as noted some pages ago) I went to an ethnically-mixed school in the 1970s with a sizeable proportion of Jewish, as well as lots of Asian and some Chinese and black boys. My memory is of Jewish boys playing all sports with some particularly excelling at rugby and water-polo, fives and squash. As many did CCF as did Voluntary Service (everyone had to do one or the other) with one guy consistently being the best shot on the range and eventually achieving warrant officer status, and the Asian and black boys similarly participated fully. One summer a small group of us, including a Jewish kid, walked the Pennine Way.

Having said that, I agree in part: the culture, opportunities and priorities of most immigrant communities (some even stretching several generations back) won't fully reflect that of the host population, so the numbers sailing, eventing, cricketing, bagging munroes, etc won't be in direct proportion their national percentages... except perhaps football.

"Fives" eh? Not yer local secondary modern then?

 

[[165264]]

It's worth remembering that in the Bible, the sea is always a symbol of chaos and evil - hence the verses in Revelation that speak of "and the sea shall be more" when describing a future, perfect state.

Of course, in our culture, we see the sea as the great pathway between nations and continents; something which sailing on the west coast of Scotland brings home very quickly. But in others, it is still a symbol of primaeval chaos.

Sometimes, I have known it be pretty chaotic: like the Solent in Cowes week when some seem to think racing trumps Colregs.

 

[[165264]]

Indeed, as Carl Jung explains:

"Water is the commonest symbol for the unconscious. The lake in the valley is the unconscious, which lies, as it were, underneath consciousness, so that it is often referred to as the "subconscious," usually with the pejorative connotation of an inferior consciousness. Water is the "valley spirit," the water dragon of Tao, whose nature resembles water-a yang embraced in the yin. Psychologically, therefore, water means spirit that has become unconscious.​

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So the dream of the theologian is quite right in telling him that down by the water he could experience the working of the living spirit like a miracle of healing in the pool of Bethesda.​

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The descent into the depths always seems to precede the ascent. "​

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And:

"I know every numbskull will babble on about "black man," "maneater," "chance," and "retrospective interpretation," in order to banish something terribly inconvenient that might sully the familiar picture of childhood innocence.​

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Ah, these good, efficient, healthy-minded people, they always remind me of those optimistic tadpoles who bask in a puddle in the sun, in the shallowest of waters, crowding together and amiably wriggling their tails, totally unaware that the next morning the puddle will have dried up and left them stranded."​

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I tried reading "Dreams" by Jung a couple of years ago. I had to give up after a couple of chapters as it just seemed self-fulfilling twaddle and was incredibly tedious too. But then he was Swiss.

 

[[165264]]

This place used to be quite vile. It has got rather better in recent years.

Blimey! I'm glad I wasn't there then!