Etap 22i keel not gaining all the way down

[happy etap]

HI
New to the forum so hello to you all . I recently purchased an Etap 22i , when I viewed the boat the first time it was on its cradle with the keel down and the second time the keel was up and on its trailer . So once I got it back to storage and cleaned and renewed the running rigging it was taken to marina for mast raising and launch. All went well until I tried to lower the keel according to the manual it should take approx 350 turns to lower keel to 1250mm I got to 230ish and keel locked solid I can raise again but can not go any lower. Is there any grease/lubricating spots or a place to apply lubricating oil, lead screw looks to be clear and greased as I can just see through from the inside. I am going back to marina tomorrow (Sunday 11th April) to see if I can release more as boat is more like a row boat than a sail boat any help would be very much appreciated I am new to sailing so please be kind.
Many thanks
Regards
Kevin

 

[Poey50]

HI
New to the forum so hello to you all . I recently purchased an Etap 22i , when I viewed the boat the first time it was on its cradle with the keel down and the second time the keel was up and on its trailer . So once I got it back to storage and cleaned and renewed the running rigging it was taken to marina for mast raising and launch. All went well until I tried to lower the keel according to the manual it should take approx 350 turns to lower keel to 1250mm I got to 230ish and keel locked solid I can raise again but can not go any lower. Is there any grease/lubricating spots or a place to apply lubricating oil, lead screw looks to be clear and greased as I can just see through from the inside. I am going back to marina tomorrow (Sunday 11th April) to see if I can release more as boat is more like a row boat than a sail boat any help would be very much appreciated I am new to sailing so please be kind.
Many thanks
Regards
Kevin

I sailed a 22i for many years. If you pm me an email address I can send you some general information about keel and crownwheel servicing. But are you sure it isn't all the way down?

 

[happy etap]

Hi
Thanks for the reply actually no am not, after I wound it down by the 230 ish turns it was like it hit a stop I asked one go the guys from the marina to see what he thought as the boat felt very unstable like one of those old row boats from the local lake when I was a child. I have the tap manual but it is very sparse on information with regard to trouble shooting. I will pm my email address. Many thanks again.

 

[happy etap]

Hi Poey50
Have been try to send a PM but having old moment and it will not send could it be because I am a new member.

 

[neil_s]

Occasionally, my drop keel is reluctant to drop all the way. This is usually because the slot has got bunged up with mud from my drying mooring - so shouldn't really be applicable to you in a marina. I found that you can help the keel to descend by rocking the boat - charging from side to side just in front of the mast seems to work!

 

[happy etap]

Oh OK I will give it a go as although no on mud she has been laid up on trailer since October last year will give it a go tomorrow thanks
Kevin.

 

[Poey50]

Hi
Thanks for the reply actually no am not, after I wound it down by the 230 ish turns it was like it hit a stop I asked one go the guys from the marina to see what he thought as the boat felt very unstable like one of those old row boats from the local lake when I was a child. I have the tap manual but it is very sparse on information with regard to trouble shooting. I will pm my email address. Many thanks again.

The keel does have a stop

Hi
Thanks for the reply actually no am not, after I wound it down by the 230 ish turns it was like it hit a stop I asked one go the guys from the marina to see what he thought as the boat felt very unstable like one of those old row boats from the local lake when I was a child. I have the tap manual but it is very sparse on information with regard to trouble shooting. I will pm my email address. Many thanks again.

The reason I ask is that in lowering the keel it does just suddenly stop - the alternative is that the keel drops out - much worse! If it was sticking then I would assume that raising and lowering would free it. The Etap22 is not particularly tippy compared to other boats of the same size but is more tender than most bigger boats so the marina staff's suggestion may not be reliable unless he is used to the boat. I'm afraid if there is a big problem there may not be much you can do with the boat in the water - all servicing needs the boat on the trailer to support the keel.

 

[neil_s]

Since you know how deep the keel should be could you have a feel about with the boathook and try and locate the end? If you mark how much boathook is in the water some simple geometry will tell you your true draft.

 

[penfold]

I don't have practical experience of the Etap 22i but it is quite light displacement; it may just be a tippy boat even with the keel down.

Edit to add; they're about the same length and beam as a Sonata but half the ballast, so they are going to be tippy.

 

[happy etap]

HI All
Thank you all so much for the help and advise I am at the boat tomorrow and will raise and lower again clean and grease what mechanisms I can and if there is any doubt I would rather air on the side of caution and haul the boat out and check it on the hard. I have already loaded cradle into the car just in case there is one thing being a novice but an uncertain novice is even worse will keep updated tomorrow.
Regards
Kevin.

 

[Poey50]

HI All
Thank you all so much for the help and advise I am at the boat tomorrow and will raise and lower again clean and grease what mechanisms I can and if there is any doubt I would rather air on the side of caution and haul the boat out and check it on the hard. I have already loaded cradle into the car just in case there is one thing being a novice but an uncertain novice is even worse will keep updated tomorrow.
Regards
Kevin.

PM me when you are free to do so and I'll send you some information.

 

[Poey50]

Here's a quick test - not definitive, but something. The draft with keel fully down is 1.25 metres, the rudder fully down is 0.9 metres. Both will of course on the centreline of the boat. If you are on a jetty and the boat centreline is parallel to the jetty then you may be able to compare the two depths if the water is undisturbed enough and you get your eye at an equivalent level to each, if you see what I mean. You may need to hold the boat off a jetty to get a view past the turn of the bilge. It might be possible from a tender but rather harder to get an equivalent eye level.

 

[happy etap]

Hi Poey50
With the help of the manuals you sent me I may of figured out a way to check .The difference between the keel up and the keel down is .85m . 04m up and 1.25m down. there is an inspection hatch at the aft of the keel housing on the inside of the boat a small removable panel . if I can measure down the slot of the rear guide then wind the keel up if the movement is 085m or there about it puts me in the right region. This is only a theory at the moment as when at the boat yesterday I removed said panel and looked in but did not realise until I saw the drawings you sent to me the manual is a user guide and has no tech drawings what so ever I will let you know how I get on thanks again.
Reagards
Kevin.

 

[Poey50]

Hi Poey50
With the help of the manuals you sent me I may of figured out a way to check .The difference between the keel up and the keel down is .85m . 04m up and 1.25m down. there is an inspection hatch at the aft of the keel housing on the inside of the boat a small removable panel . if I can measure down the slot of the rear guide then wind the keel up if the movement is 085m or there about it puts me in the right region. This is only a theory at the moment as when at the boat yesterday I removed said panel and looked in but did not realise until I saw the drawings you sent to me the manual is a user guide and has no tech drawings what so ever I will let you know how I get on thanks again.
Reagards
Kevin.

I was going to suggest that but it was a once in a lifetime level of buggeration to remove the zipped-on keel cover from our 22i to gain access to the plate but it sounds like you have done it so that could work.

 

[William_H]

The apparent stability of the boat is probably not indicative of the keel being right down or not. I have to say my little 21fter with 100kg drop keel and a few hundred kg lead under the floor is embarrassingly tender when ever I and guests climb on over the side from tender. It is that initial tip that is so alarming. The stability in this range from level to say 15 degrees is almost entirely provided by the shape of the bilge. (chines) So a flat bottomed boat will have hard chines (the corner between the bottom and the sides) while a round bottomed boat has very gentle chines. As she heels over the chine digs into the water and the flotation here resists the heel. Your Etap will be like mine with flatish bottom to rounded chines for minimum wetted area so best sailing performance.
The pendulum effect of the keel from trigonometry only starts to have an effect at about 45 degrees so depth of keel is not indicative.
As for me I would be in the water with swim mask even dive down and wiggle it a bit if in doubt. But then that is all about latitude.
What I have found with my free drop keel is that fore and aft trim of the boat is critical to having it drop free and clear. But especially initial entry to slot and drop. Mine is raised by 4 part tackle to halyard winch. I can with care see if it is in the centre of the slot. But I fitted a small spirit level into the locker to enable me to get trim right for keel drop. So nothing applicable to OP. (sorry) Just don't worry about tenderness when you step on. ol'will

 

[happy etap]

Ok so measured the diatance between keel up and down and it is 85cm so all ok thanks to every one for the help and suport a combination of lack of experience and being paranoid .
Regards
Kevin

 

[Poey50]

Ok so measured the diatance between keel up and down and it is 85cm so all ok thanks to every one for the help and suport a combination of lack of experience and being paranoid .
Regards
Kevin

Nothing wrong with a bit of paranoia ... overconfidence is the killer. Enjoy your 22i. We went everywhere in ours including the Baltic (some of that in the back of a ferry, admittedly). Really strong well designed boats.

 

[coveman]

Glad you have managed to prove the keel is going all the way down. I presume you are counting the number of turns required by watching the small counter at the front of the mast. If the gear teeth are worn on the counter this may be giving you a false reading - ie it may not be counting all the turns of the handle which would perhaps lead you to believe the keel had not dropped far enough when in fact it had. Also if, when servicing the mechanism the calibration could have altered if it wasn't put back together with the counter at the correct number with the keel fully up,or down. It should show 0.40m with the keel up - worth perhaps checking.
As an aside, there used to be a good Etap Owners Association forum but this is no longer and has to a certain degree been replaced by a facebook group - not as good but some useful information is located in "files" at the top of the group page - Facebook Groups