Ensign question

[Pikor]

Hi,
It is probably a lame one, apologies.

As a foreigner living in the UK and owning a boat registered here what ensign should I fly? RYA Flag etiquette is very ambiguous:

"The Ensign is the national flag and denotes the country of registration. Generally this will follow the nationality of the owner."

I am kinda confused, but I am pretty sure there are relevant regulations?

Pikor

 

[macd]

You write that it's registered in the UK, so that's the ensign it should wear. No ambiguity at all.
If remaining in UK waters, there's actually no requirement for you to wear an ensign at all, although most boats seem to do so.

Should you wish to display something to denote your nationality, or just out of fondness for your old country, a courtesy-flag sized job can be flown from the port spreader.

And welcome to the forum.

P.S. I've had chance to check the RYA website. This page might be more informative than whatever you've read so far: https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/regulations/Pages/flag-etiquette.aspx
In particular this sentence sums up matters:
"A UK registered vessel should wear the national maritime flag, the Red Ensign, unless entitled to wear a special Ensign."

Wherever your original quote came from, it's wrong. The ensign is not the national flag: it's the national maritime flag. The two are sometimes the same, but definitely not so in the case of the UK. (In fact it's a criminal offence to fly a Union flag from a British boat, unless Her Majesty or the Royal Navy happen to own it. But I guess you've already had plenty of wry amusement at the quirky ways of old Albion.)

 

[Stemar]

SWMBO's French, so we used to fly a Tricolore from the port spreader. We stopped after the fiftieth person told us we'd forgotten our courtesy flag

 

[LittleSister]

SWMBO's French, so we used to fly a Tricolore from the port spreader. We stopped after the fiftieth person told us we'd forgotten our courtesy flag

I hope you got your own back with a long and tedious lecture to each of them, on the hierarchy and significance of the various flag positions.

 

[Stemar]

Ooooohhhh Yeeesss

 

[awol]

Of course, if your boat is in Scottish waters, a Scottish red ensign is appreciated.

 

[Old Bumbulum]

Of course, if your boat is in Scottish waters, a Scottish red ensign is appreciated.
View attachment 73865

Why not a Sainsbury or Morrison's flag?
It's just as relevant to boating and has as much to do with an "ensign" as the diagram you posted.
Indeed, why not just use a dirty pillowcase if that's all the respect you have for your country?

 

[jamie N]

Why don't you believe that it's relevant within our country?

 

[awol]

Scottish red precedes the UK version by some considerable time. I don't think Sainsbury or Morrison have that historical cachet.

 

[Topcat47]

Scottish red precedes the UK version by some considerable time. I don't think Sainsbury or Morrison have that historical cachet.

I'd like to see some evidence of that. I've never seen an old version of this flag in any museum and I lived in Scotland for over 20 years. Plenty of Red, White and Blue UK ensigns in maritime museums though.

 

[awol]

I'd like to see some evidence of that.

Try Wiki - it's there so might even be true! This is a print of someone's interpretation of the Darien expedition - if only it was in colour - with at least 2 flags with saltire quartiles.

 

[Sandy]

Plenty of Devon ensigns are seen in these parts.

I usually forget to display any ensign while in home waters.

 

[[163233]]

Scottish red precedes the UK version by some considerable time. I don't think Sainsbury or Morrison have that historical cachet.

Its the modern world though, Sainsbury's and Mozzers are so much more inclusive with none of the nationalistic hate stuff.
I might fly a co-op ensign when I get a new boat, show solidarity with the Rochdale principles.

 

[macd]

...show solidarity with the Rochdale principles.

The pre-Fat Cyril ones, at any rate.
(Odd factoid that Rochdale claimed the widest bridge in Europe, and the widest MP.)

 

[awol]

Its the modern world though, Sainsbury's and Mozzers are so much more inclusive with none of the nationalistic hate stuff.
I might fly a co-op ensign when I get a new boat, show solidarity with the Rochdale principles.

"Nationalistic hate stuff"? And I thought it was the Scots who had chips on their shoulders. The Scot Nats, and not everyone who wears a Scottish red ensign is necessarily of their persuasion, are certainly more inclusive in regards to incomers than our southern neighbours - we even put up with Webby, for goodness sake!

 

[dgadee]

Currently flying one of those Scottish Ensigns far out of Scots waters. I never flew anything - and have never had any trouble from foreign authorities - but the crew wanted a flag so that's what is adorning our stern.

 

[Old Bumbulum]

but the crew wanted a flag so that's what is adorning our stern.

Precisely, it's just a flag, not an ensign.

However international law requires you to wear your national ensign of registry when in foreign waters so your lack of trouble to date is by no means guaranteed.

 

[dgadee]

Precisely, it's just a flag, not an ensign.

However international law requires you to wear your national ensign of registry when in foreign waters so your lack of trouble to date is by no means guaranteed.

Ha. I'm sure authorities have more important things to do (fill in paperwork, for example). One Portuguese coastguard asked what flag it was, then told me about his wonderful holiday in Scotland.

My experience is boat registration and passports get you by. I would have added insurance document but a friend told me he doesn't have any (I know ...) and just gives an old cover note. He says no-one reads them anyway.

 

[moomba]

Ha. I'm sure authorities have more important things to do (fill in paperwork, for example). One Portuguese coastguard asked what flag it was, then told me about his wonderful holiday in Scotland.

My experience is boat registration and passports get you by. I would have added insurance document but a friend told me he doesn't have any (I know ...) and just gives an old cover note. He says no-one reads them anyway.

I think in Europe you will get away with non conforming with the correct flag , but as you enter the Caribbean and beyond ,and some South American countries , they are quite striked on the rules. As in some small nations you are still treated as a commercial ship entering their waters, with the usual customs , captain only leaving the vessel and such

 

[dgadee]

I think in Europe you will get away with non conforming with the correct flag , but as you enter the Caribbean and beyond ,and some South American countries , they are quite striked on the rules. As in some small nations you are still treated as a commercial ship entering their waters, with the usual customs , captain only leaving the vessel and such

Not got there yet, but my natural scepticism wonders if these South American or Caribbean countries would know that it's not ("yet", according to the crew) a national ensign. I'll keep flying it and this forum will be first to hear if I am imprisoned. I will also ask you to be generous on the crowdfunding page I'll set up to get me out of jail.