Ensign question

[Topcat47]

What happens if you don't?

Back in the 80's I dipped to a Nato flotilla leaving Portsmouth. The American, British, Dutch and Italian frigates all rushed to acknowledge the salute but the last ship in the line was French. The Yeoman left the bridge, walked little way towards the companionway and as soon as he was out of sight of his own bridge officers, flicked the Bee sign to me and lit a fag. Says it all really.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Didnt know that Singapore had one?

Poor old Singapore had a pretty rough time at the start of WW2, kept under military subjugation by an occupying force interested only in its strategic possibilities and treating the local population with violence and contempt. Then the Japanese invaded.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Back in the 80's I dipped to a Nato flotilla leaving Portsmouth. The American, British, Dutch and Italian frigates all rushed to acknowledge the salute but the last ship in the line was French. The Yeoman left the bridge, walked little way towards the companionway and as soon as he was out of sight of his own bridge officers, flicked the Bee sign to me and lit a fag. Says it all really.

A brilliant example of French style. I deeply admire that man.

 

[moomba]

Poor old Singapore had a pretty rough time at the start of WW2, kept under military subjugation by an occupying force interested only in its strategic possibilities and treating the local population with violence and contempt. Then the Japanese invaded.

Sounds like ,Accession Island, Falklands , Diego Garcia
ah those that look at the past empire and still hold the grudge it was all our fault , I think we need to stop apologising , move one and reflect and be glad this generation will not make the same mistakes
Remember than many a brave commonwealth man and women and British , either died or were captured by the Japanese and held in some horrible conditions , at least show them some respect.
War is controlled by the politicians , we are told to follow.

 

[macd]

Poor old Singapore had a pretty rough time at the start of WW2, kept under military subjugation by an occupying force interested only in its strategic possibilities and treating the local population with violence and contempt. Then the Japanese invaded.

:encouragement:

 

[awol]

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sounds like ,Accession Island, Falklands , Diego Garcia
ah those that look at the past empire and still hold the grudge it was all our fault , I think we need to stop apologising , move one and reflect and be glad this generation will not make the same mistakes
Remember than many a brave commonwealth man and women and British , either died or were captured by the Japanese and held in some horrible conditions , at least show them some respect.
War is controlled by the politicians , we are told to follow.

At least there were no locals in Ascension Island or the Falklands, and although the Diego Garcians were settlers our treatment of them has been contemptible. That said, it is not for us to decide when enough apology has been expressed for our dreadful past; we are in no better a moral position t tell Africans to shut up about the Empire than Germany would be to tell Jews to shut up about Auschwitz.

 

[moomba]

At least there were no locals in Ascension Island or the Falklands, and although the Diego Garcians were settlers our treatment of them has been contemptible. That said, it is not for us to decide when enough apology has been expressed for our dreadful past; we are in no better a moral position t tell Africans to shut up about the Empire than Germany would be to tell Jews to shut up about Auschwitz.

Then what about the Romans or the Vikings who did a few eye raising debaucheries in this country, I do believe the Romans held their empire in a vice like grip of fear and torture, were does the history stop 100 years 1000 years , were is the line drawn were we no longer need to apologies, and move on and hope we never become that again , when is it time to grieve in peace.
Do we give the Japanse grief or the Germans for their war atrocities , no we as British forgive and move on hoping that we never see the horrors again , but when the British look at their own past there are some that still cant forgive and move one and need to keep Self-flagellation and tearing statutes down of the past , move on people and be thankful it will never hopefully happen again

 

[JumbleDuck]

Do we give the Japanse grief or the Germans for their war atrocities ,

Yes

no we as British forgive and move on hoping that we never see the horrors again , but when the British look at their own past there are some that still cant forgive and move one and need to keep Self-flagellation and tearing statutes down of the past , move on people and be thankful it will never hopefully happen again

The BIG difference is that the Germans have admitted what they did and recognized that it was morally indefensible. Britain has not come to terms with or even admitted the crimes of imperialism, even though they lasted into the sixties on a grand scale, to say nothing of more recent behaviour in Afghanistan and Iraq which while not driven by the need to maintain an empire, derives from the same basic assumption that Britain has the right to kick lesser races around whenever she finds it expedient to do so.

 

[moomba]

Yes



The BIG difference is that the Germans have admitted what they did and recognized that it was morally indefensible. Britain has not come to terms with or even admitted the crimes of imperialism, even though they lasted into the sixties on a grand scale, to say nothing of more recent behaviour in Afghanistan and Iraq which while not driven by the need to maintain an empire, derives from the same basic assumption that Britain has the right to kick lesser races around whenever she finds it expedient to do so.

I think you will find that Britain entered these wars under NATO s flag and as a member of Nato we were obliged to help and per the NATO agreement.
As for Iraq this was under the guise of weapons of mass destruction lead from Blair and Bush and their dossier of lies, the Army only follow to the politicians tune. Therefore as a Democratic society we can vote that government out or put pressure on then to stop.
and no we do not Give Japan and Germany Grief anymore because we move on and look to the future for hope and salvation.
Remember that Fascism and imperialism was defeated by those who fought to defend that freedom.

 

[Pikor]

Right...,

This thread went much further than I anticipated it will . It pointed me to a more recent reference on RYA pages so I am not in doubt anymore. I am Polish by the way. As for the Germans, back in the day in communist occupied Poland I was learning year after year about war atrocities, bad Germans and good Soviets, but fortunately came to understanding that almost none of the Germans I've ever met or will meet had anything to do with what happened.
Anyway, the whole thread makes for a very interesting read. Thank you.

 

[awol]

I suggest you try a question on anchors for your next post!

 

[moomba]

I suggest you try a question on anchors for your next post!

Obscene language is not allowed in this forum

 

[Resolution]

Right...,

This thread went much further than I anticipated it will . It pointed me to a more recent reference on RYA pages so I am not in doubt anymore. I am Polish by the way. As for the Germans, back in the day in communist occupied Poland I was learning year after year about war atrocities, bad Germans and good Soviets, but fortunately came to understanding that almost none of the Germans I've ever met or will meet had anything to do with what happened.
Anyway, the whole thread makes for a very interesting read. Thank you.

Thank you for your reasoned response. My son-in-law is from Bavaria and has wistfully commented that it must be nice to be British and have a history of which we can be proud.

 

[moomba]

Thank you for your reasoned response. My son-in-law is from Bavaria and has wistfully commented that it must be nice to be British and have a history of which we can be proud.

Many countries have had empires, wars and derstruction from the Mongoliains, to the Turks , the Greeks the Arabs, the French had Napoelan , who was no saint, we need to learn from each war and move on the Great war is now starting to wane and is now in our memories and eventually the second war will move on and hopefully we can all regret but not be ashamed of our past country men, my Grandfather , was taken when the Germans invaded Poland and recruited into the SS captured at Arhem sent to POW camp in Scotland here he met my Italian grandmother evacuated from Casino in Italy as the allies were bogged down , and was given a Polish uniform and sent back to fight the Germans , he had never really talked about it but was glad he had my mother and aunt so they would never go to war. ( he never blamed anyone nor spoke ill of any nation a true gent.)
So yes ty OP it is time to grieve in silence and let the past be more reflective that acussing

 

[[163233]]

Poor old Singapore had a pretty rough time at the start of WW2, kept under military subjugation by an occupying force interested only in its strategic possibilities and treating the local population with violence and contempt. Then the Japanese invaded.

Taking some liberties with the history of Singapore there. It was set up by a Scot of course, always the attack dogs of the empire.

 

[johnalison]

Many countries have had empires, wars and derstruction from the Mongoliains, to the Turks , the Greeks the Arabs, the French had Napoelan , who was no saint, we need to learn from each war and move on the Great war is now starting to wane and is now in our memories and eventually the second war will move on and hopefully we can all regret but not be ashamed of our past country men, my Grandfather , was taken when the Germans invaded Poland and recruited into the SS captured at Arhem sent to POW camp in Scotland here he met my Italian grandmother evacuated from Casino in Italy as the allies were bogged down , and was given a Polish uniform and sent back to fight the Germans , he had never really talked about it but was glad he had my mother and aunt so they would never go to war. ( he never blamed anyone nor spoke ill of any nation a true gent.)
So yes ty OP it is time to grieve in silence and let the past be more reflective that acussing

The German question remains difficult even now. There are plenty of British fossils who continue to harbour a grudge without any personal history to base it on, which might be understandable. East Germans were in a strange position, having been brought up with the communist anti-fascist message but having to square the is with the fact that they belonged to the country in question, which had itself become totalitarian.

Even those Germans from the GDR had to have mixed feelings. We spent several happy days doing a regatta, in Neustadt, and made good friends with our colleagues. At the end, one of the chaps that we hadn't seen much of asked us why we were sailing in Germany. When we replied that we sailed there because we enjoyed the place and the people he was almost in tears, having had the impression that he was still living in a pariah state.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Now't to do with waships I'm afraid.
You're saluting the ensign, not the vessel or service which in theorey at least means you should salute a RYS yacht if she is wearing the white!

Utter, utter rubbish.

I can only assume that in your ignorance you have confused salutes and commissions with dipping and ensigns. You might also want to do some basic resaerch on the history and relative seniority of UK 'coloured' ensigns.

The back story on dipping to the RN is also relativly easy to find.

 

[Fascadale]

Why not a Sainsbury or Morrison's flag?
It's just as relevant to boating and has as much to do with an "ensign" as the diagram you posted.
Indeed, why not just use a dirty pillowcase if that's all the respect you have for your country?

Perfectly landed Mr AWOL

Hook, line and sinker!