Engine Winterization

[dah]

I have a Centaur fitted with an MD11c (Sea Water cooled). In this month's ST there is an article on winterization which states;
1. With a raw water system drain it and then flush it through with a mixture of freshwater and antifreeze. Once that is done REMOVE THE IMPELLER as the fins will set in curves if left over the winter. This is what I have always done.

However, I have just purchased Pat Manley's "Diesel Companion" which offers the following advice; flush the system through with fresh water and when the water in the bucket reduces to about 25% add the antifreeze. As the bucket empties stop the engine and do not restart until recommisioned.DO NOT REMOVE THE IMPELLER UNTIL RECOMISSIONING 0OR YOU MAY LOSE SOME OF THE WATER/ANTIFREEZE MIX.

Being not very technically efficent (thats an understatement), do I leave the impeller in situ or remove for the winter? Any thoughts/comments would be most welcome and appreciated.

 

[vyv_cox]

Taking the impeller out will allow the water/antifreeze mixture to run out. Personally, I don't think this is a problem with a cast iron block, but Pat Manley is the expert! You could leave the impeller in only if you are expecting to bin it afterwards, as there is a very strong chance that it will fail on re-use next season.

 

[Gunfleet]

Perhaps he means leave the impeller in, then replace it next season. I replaced a carefully stored impeller in April and it failed in May. I may just as well have put a new one in to start with.

 

[brianhumber]

Lots of old wives tales over what you must and should'nt do for winterisation.
Can't see any real practical advantage in keeping system full of water apart from keeping corrosion at bay over winter around .

You infer that the ST method have not given you any trouble before. Removing the impeller does prolong its life. I get 3/4 years per impeller sailing about 3,000 miles a year with several hundred engine hours per year. Just inspect the the base of the vanes closely for cracking before refitting. Carry on as you do normally.

Brian

 

[pvb]

Leave it in...

Why on earth should it be a problem to leave it in? If people say it's going to set in a curve, ask them why the new impellers which spend years on chandlers' shelves don't set straight! I check the impeller on my boat, but I don't automatically replace it - although I always keep a spare on board.

 

[Viking]

Re: Engine Winterization - in what order?

Perhaps I could add my own follow up question?
In what order should one do the winterization jobs?
ie from a warm engine should you change the fuel filters then the oil change then the cool system? or in another order? if someone could give me a 1,2,3 list PLEASE?

 

[bedouin]

Re: Engine Winterization - in what order?

My order is

(i) Warm engine up
(ii) Drain oil
(iii) Change Oil Filter & impeller
(iv) Refill with oil
(v) Start engine and flush through with fresh water / antifreeze.

I then wait until the recommissioning to change the fuel filters - otherwise it could be done before you start the above.

BUT A WORD OF CAUTION...

I had problems last year when I tried did this with my MD2B - after refilling with oil I couldn't get the oil pump to prime so no oil pressure. The engineer said this was a problem with draining the engine when warm - apparently they don't do that. Wasn't too difficult to fix once we'd worked out what the problem was.

 

[ccscott49]

Leavew the impellor in! Check it at the beggining of the new season, inspecting the root of the blades and the tips for any cracking chipping, if atall suspect replace it, always carry a spare anyway. I advise adding some soluble oil to the antifreeze mix, this coats all internals with a llight film of oil, which protects everything.

 

[Guest]

I'd say that as the impeller isn't too expensive (I know all these things add up) then replace it every year at the beginning of the season anyway. And carry a spare.

IMHO

Geoff W

 

[vyv_cox]

Every year

Fully agree. Modern maintenance practice is almost all risk based. The cost of almost 100% risk avoidance (new impeller) is so small when compared with the consequence of failure (engine overheating, possible destruction or serious damage, at unlikely worst even loss of the boat) that re-using one cannot be justified.

I have had very mixed experience when re-using. Two years ago a one year old impeller that I inspected very carefully for cracks failed half-way through the season, engine was OK but the trap melted and had to be replaced. Previously I have achieved three seasons from the same one. Now I change every year but keep all the old ones for spares, unless cracked already.

 

[Viking]

Re: Engine Winterization - in what order?

Thanks for that, I will hold off the fuel filter change until the spring.
In a prevous life I had a older raw water cooled engine. The new(er) boat has a brand new(ish) 2 years old VP 2030. Up here in the northern climes. I dont want to F**k the engine up. Prevously I would warm the engine, for a few minutes, just to loosen the oil up before pumping it out. I have brought all VP produces Oil(s) engine and gear box, flush (raw watersystem), filters - oil and fuel, impeller, including anodes and AF spray for the sail drive. There is anti freeze in the fresh water system. So I hope, I dont mess it up! Ill change the impeller in the spring as with the fuel filters. When I will renew the coolant.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Every year

Funnily enough I agree aswell, I always change my impellor evry year and keep the old one as a spare, if ok, then throw it away the next year, if the next one comes out ok.

 

[Opinionated]

Fast change

Just as a by-the-way....

BTW, 2000 season fitted a (forgotten name, see YM ad) thingy which amounts to you throwing away your old pump cover, and replacing with this thick brass cover, with a thin O-ring instead of a paper gasket. The cover is held on with four knurled thumbscrews, and comes off in half a minute with no tools. I have stashed the spare impeller in the engine bay, but, so far, have not had to whip it off in anger. But it makes checking the impeller a v. simple task.



IMHO, of course.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Fast change

I have those covers on all my jabsco type pumps, very handy bit of kit! I wonder why when you buy an impellor, they don't give you a gasket aswell, before I fitted these covers, I had to make the bloody things all the time, if they tore, which they often did and the chandler who sells you the impellor never seems to have any gaskets!!

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Fast change

I have mixed feelings about thin O-rings. If you are lucky you should be able to re-use them many times. But they are easy to displace from their groove, which wrecks them if the cover is tightened up. On the Yanmar fresh water cooled engines the pump is mounted back to front, so displacing the O-ring is very easy, unless you take the pump off. In which case there is little point in having a quick-release anyway. Maybe you remembered to buy some spares, but if not, what then?

Whereas a paper gasket can be relied upon to stick, requiring it to be scraped off, or will tear. It takes a couple of minutes to make another, but you always have the raw materials to hand - a chart if all else fails.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Fast change

I do carry spare o rings, but never buggered one in about six years. If you get some waterpump grease, thick very, very sticky stuff, then stick the o ring in, it doesn't or hasn't moved yet. I used to use it for sticking gaskets, sealing rings in oil/fuel filters etc, for upside down work and stuff like that, also for sticking nuts to ends of fingers (the type you put on bolts!!!) when working upside down in tight places, always had or have a tin in my toolbox. You can also use soldering flux, the paste stuff, or even industrial vaseline.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Fast change

I do the same with the heavy grease. On the compression type seals, like on pump cover plates, I agree that it would be difficult to damage an O-ring, except that it is extremely awkward on the Yanmar. I was speaking rather more generally about thin section O-rings, my recent problems with the RM69 toilet were caused by them. There is a plug fitting on the toilet base that requires the fitting to be pushed in and turned to lock. The old design has two O-rings about 1mm section and these were displaced very easily, which happened to me. The replacement had O-rings about 3 mm section, much better.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Fast change

..........and you definitely don't want leaking toilets, Yuck!! Thick grease is great, but the waterpump variety is really sticky. I don't know why they didn't fit a thicker section "O" ring, there's plenty of meat on the covers.

 

[Aja]

Re: Fast change

Cant agree more re the fiddly O rings and the backward facing pump on the Yanmar. Last season fitting the O ring I cut my finger on the edge of the groove it fits into.... by cut I mean big flap of skin and plenty blood.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Fast change

Oh! Dear! I bet you swore aswell!