Engine warranty - what's my legal position?

[Keith-i]

Without going into the finer detail as this is an ongoing and current issue, I wonder if anyone knows where I stand with regard to warranty on a long running engine defect.

In brief summary we had a new engine fitted to our boat in 2009. It came with a 2 year warranty but within the first year it sprung an oil leak. This was not a showstopper, but just something you would not want or expect on a new engine. It was repaired by the main UK agent in 2010. The repair failed and three further repairs have been attempted over the last 6 years to no avail. What do I do now and what rights, if any, do I have?

To complicate matters, the original shipyard which installed the engine went out of business a few years back and to further complicate the issue the importer/dealership for my particular brand has been passed from one distributor to another. Up until the last repair the current dealership has been very helpful and spent a fair bit on attempting to repair it. However, they are now saying I am on my own as the warranty expired in 2011 (although I was given a further 1 year warranty out of courtesy in 2014 when it had it's last repair). In my view the warranty is irrelevant as the fault started within the first warranty period. If it were a car I'm pretty sure the dealer would have taken it back by now!

If anyone can offer any advice as to how I should fight my corner I'd be most appreciative.

Keith

 

[Poignard]

Worth getting a solicitor's advice, I'd say.

 

[Rgrwynne]

It is worth getting "free legal advice" However it is a long time ago, and normally your claim is against the supplier. If they no longer exist you could very well find there is nobody to accept responsibility.
Be careful not to run up a large legal bill.

 

[superheat6k]

Your contract is / was with the party from whom you bought the engine.

If the interests have been transferred a lot will depend upon the nature of those transfers. If they each time acquired the Limited liabilities then you might have a claim, but if any of the transfers were an asset sale then you are on your own I would expect.

Notwithstanding an issue reported and dealt with to some satisfaction in 2009 is hardly likely to incur an ongoing warranty liability in 2016.

You do not explain anything about the oil leak. It would be interesting to know the nature and why it can't be fixed.

 

[Keith-i]

You do not explain anything about the oil leak. It would be interesting to know the nature and why it can't be fixed.

I wish I knew why it can't be fixed. On the face of it it's very simple. There are two timing chain cover plates on the back of the block which are part sealed with a metal gasket and part with sealant. There is a three way joint where the two cover plates meet the edge of the head gasket and it seems to be around here that the leak starts. There's no obvious reason that the seals fail unless there is some thermal expansion fault at play. No one I have spoken to has heard of this particular fault before on this engine either its marine or vehicle guise.

 

[superheat6k]

I wish I knew why it can't be fixed. On the face of it it's very simple. There are two timing chain cover plates on the back of the block which are part sealed with a metal gasket and part with sealant. There is a three way joint where the two cover plates meet the edge of the head gasket and it seems to be around here that the leak starts. There's no obvious reason that the seals fail unless there is some thermal expansion fault at play. No one I have spoken to has heard of this particular fault before on this engine either its marine or vehicle guise.

Can you post a photo ?

 

[Poignard]

Although the supplier of a defective product bears the immediate liability, the producer of it is ultimately responsible snd cannot unreasonably offload that responsibility downstream.

 

[MoodySabre]

This is not a legal reply. You have been trying to get this done for seven years and used the boat meanwhile. It is not going to get repaired for free and there is obviously some inherent defect with your engine. Botch it up while you save up for a new engine and accept that SH!t happens and it was your turn.

 

[Keith-i]

This is the starboard side rear of engine showing the 3-way junction of upper and lower cover plates and the head gasket running off horizontally to the right.

 

[superheat6k]

This is the starboard side rear of engine showing the 3-way junction of upper and lower cover plates and the head gasket running off horizontally to the right.
View attachment 58432

Hard to tell exactly where your leak occurs, but there is an obvious misalignment between the head gasket line and the casting joining to it upper left. Is this where the leak appears ?

 

[Tranona]

Doubt you will get any redress given the age of the engine. The absolute limit of any liability is 6 years and even then you would have to prove that the fault was there from the beginning.

Given that the original supplier no longer exists and others have done work on the engine to try and solve it, the only hope of finding a fix is to contact the service department of the engine manufacturer, unless you have already done so.

I am afraid you are wrong in thinking that a car manufacturer would have acted differently. Even under the latest Consumer Rights Act which came in last year you are way past the point where you could reject the engine. In addition once you are out of warranty you are reliant on goodwill unless you use the Sale of Goods Act through the courts (although in some cases just a threat and a good case is enough to get action).

 

[lynall]

If its just a weep you can get that stuff that classic car guys use that you sort of rub and push the stuff into the joints, no need to strip it down, not tried it so cant vouch for it.
http://www.frost.co.uk/oyltite-stik-seals-oil-leaks-thread-sealer.html

 

[Bigplumbs]

This is not a legal reply. You have been trying to get this done for seven years and used the boat meanwhile. It is not going to get repaired for free and there is obviously some inherent defect with your engine. Botch it up while you save up for a new engine and accept that SH!t happens and it was your turn.

I think this is the best advice coupled with use of the 'stuff classic car boys use'

Don't go legal that will just be frustrating and cost you more in the long term

Dennis

 

[Niander]

How much is it leaking?
If its not that bad just live with it.
Or spend thousands?

 

[Keith-i]

Hard to tell exactly where your leak occurs, but there is an obvious misalignment between the head gasket line and the casting joining to it upper left. Is this where the leak appears ?

The oil does appear in the vicinity of this junction. It is very hard to tell exactly where it originates though (the photo was taken after a repair and with ancillaries still not mounted which normally block the view somewhat). This engine is in widespread use in Europe both in boats and the automotive sector and has been around for quite a few years now so if it was a 'design' fault there would be more than just me pulling my hair out!

the only hope of finding a fix is to contact the service department of the engine manufacturer, unless you have already done so.

The first repairs were undertaken by the manufacturer's approved network of dealers. The last repair involved the engine being shipped back to the main European service department. On the basis even they failed to solve the problem I feel a little bit reluctant to accept the burden of solving this one at my ongoing expense.

 

[Rgrwynne]

The contract is always with the supplier not the manufacturer. From 2009, with a supplier gone bust, I would take the advice on here...... move on and replace the engine.

 

[Poignard]

Worth trying to find an experienced engine fitter to sort it out rather than just a parts swapper.

 

[Tranona]

The first repairs were undertaken by the manufacturer's approved network of dealers. The last repair involved the engine being shipped back to the main European service department. On the basis even they failed to solve the problem I feel a little bit reluctant to accept the burden of solving this one at my ongoing expense.

This suggests you now have a contract with whoever carried out the last repair, assuming you paid for it. If this was the manufacturer then you have some leverage to get a solution by rejecting the repair under the Consumer Rights Act. You will have to show that the repair is not of merchantable quality which will involve demonstrating that the leak materially affects the use of the engine. This may be difficult to prove as the engine has been in use now for 7 years and presumably you are still using the boat.

What has the manufacturer said about the leak and their seeming failure to stop it?

 

[Latestarter1]

Without going into the finer detail as this is an ongoing and current issue, I wonder if anyone knows where I stand with regard to warranty on a long running engine defect.

In brief summary we had a new engine fitted to our boat in 2009. It came with a 2 year warranty but within the first year it sprung an oil leak. This was not a showstopper, but just something you would not want or expect on a new engine. It was repaired by the main UK agent in 2010. The repair failed and three further repairs have been attempted over the last 6 years to no avail. What do I do now and what rights, if any, do I have?

To complicate matters, the original shipyard which installed the engine went out of business a few years back and to further complicate the issue the importer/dealership for my particular brand has been passed from one distributor to another. Up until the last repair the current dealership has been very helpful and spent a fair bit on attempting to repair it. However, they are now saying I am on my own as the warranty expired in 2011 (although I was given a further 1 year warranty out of courtesy in 2014 when it had it's last repair). In my view the warranty is irrelevant as the fault started within the first warranty period. If it were a car I'm pretty sure the dealer would have taken it back by now!

If anyone can offer any advice as to how I should fight my corner I'd be most appreciative.

Keith

Keith,

You have been very diplomatic not mentioning the manufacturer so I accept that.

In general manufacturers have a 'Policy' budget to resolve issues out of warranty.

May I suggest that you write to the manufacturer and give detailed account of your problems and request reasons why the dealer interventions have failed to ensure a robust fix and request an action plan to correct the problem. The extra years 'warranty' I would have thought was backed by the manufacturer and appears to be a tacit acknowledgement that they have an issue.

 

[jon and michie]

Are the headbolts torqued down enough?? - Mitsubishi on their l200 diesel engine never torqued their heads down enough and vibration from the engine running used to loosen the Head and oil used to get into the coolant. Just a thought

Jon