Engine maintanance course recommendation

[baart]

Hi,

I am looking to finally get to do a proper engine maintanance course this winter. Would prefer one that covers outboards as well. Anyone willing to share their experiences?

Thx,
B

 

[[70521]]

Errrmmm, can you describe 'a proper engine course' as boat engines come in all shapes and sizes from 10 hp to 1000 hp, and can be a simple mechanical engine to one that has a complex set of electronics to manage the system. The same goes for outboards.

With this additional information people can help you with some relevant information.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I've done the RYA Diesel Engine course and didn't think it very good - I only did it because it was bundled in a weekend with a VHF course that I needed.

I didn't think there was much in it that you wouldn't already know if you maintained your own cars, although I've never had to bleed a diesel car. Unfortunately the engine-bleeding part of the RYA Diesel Engine course wasn't very good - they had three green engines on stands, and each had a pump bulb at the filter, so that bleeding was presented as "just pump, pump, pump". From experience now I own a boat, it's more fiddly than that, cracking nuts next to the injectors and waiting until a dribble of fuel comes out - the classroom wasn't a very good representation because the engines were dry.

I think you'd be better off hiring a marine diesel engineer for an afternoon (this guy comes recommended) and getting him to show you how to change your oil and bleed the diesel on your own boat. It could be a different engine in your boat than you'll find on the course, and the same engine can be set up with different fuel filters and suchlike on different boats, so I'm not convinced how helpful the generic course is for the newb.

 

[baart]

I have a Yanmar 2GM, understand the basics but want to learn more if I can, stuff that would be transferable to other inboard engines I may come across. Same with outboards, more a dinghy type outboard than a complex 300hp monster. Nothing too complex in terms of electronics. I was hoping the course would go into problem solving more than what I can read or find on youtube.

 

[EugeneR]

I have just done the RYA diesel engine course and was not impressed; or, perhaps just surprised by how much I knew and could do already. It covers the very basics only.

Years ago, I asked my local Volvo agent to service one engine while I "copied" on the other. From the experience, I put together a toolkit containing only the tools required e.g sizes 13 and 14 offset spanners, etc. That was worth much more than a course, IMHO.

May not be relevant for outboards, though.

 

[colind3782]

I did the five day MCA AEC course a couple of years ago and learned a lot. Outboards were briefly covered. Since then COVID has made sure that I didn't have to put much of it into practice!

 

[baart]

I did the five day MCA AEC

it does feel like a true "proper" course a bit expensive though. Maybe one day.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I've remarked before that the RYA diesel course seems to be very variable in quality. Mine was excellent, taught by an engineer who really knew his stuff, and who used an "old technology" engine to demonstrate on, with many other bits and pieces brought in to show us how they worked and what can go wrong. The main result was giving us the confidence to tackle doing jobs on the engine, secure in the knowledge that we knew what NOT to do! But the aim of the course is to ensure that if your engine fails, you know enough to fix the usual problems and can follow a sensible diagnostic routine to identify a fault. Air, Fuel, Compression!

I suspect that some of the courses are taught "by the book" by people who know the course material, but who aren't grounded in practical engineering skills.

 

[Hermit]

I had these guys come onboard to service and winterise my (new to me) inboard and outboard. They were happy for me to tag along and watch/help. I think they were brilliant.

Crofton Marine Engineering

 

[baart]

Crofton Marine Engineering

Using them regularily and already learned a lot

 

[baart]

But the aim of the course is to ensure that if your engine fails, you know enough to fix the usual problems and can follow a sensible diagnostic routine to identify a fault. Air, Fuel, Compression!

I am trying to find a course that would go beyond that, more in depth knowledge if possible

 

[Hydrozoan]

My wife did the 1-day RYA diesel course so that she had some very basic engine knowledge in case I suddenly keeled over. As I expected, and as his exchange with AntarcticPilot confirms, the OP wants a good deal more than that. I assumed - correctly I think - that I knew enough, but she enjoyed it and it also enabled her to take more of an interest in, and help with, the routine servicing, which itself helped her acquire knowledge useful in an emergency.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My wife did the 1-day RYA diesel course so that she had some very basic engine knowledge in case I suddenly keeled over. As I expected, and as his exchange with AntarcticPilot confirms, the OP wants a good deal more than that. I assumed - correctly I think - that I knew enough, but she enjoyed it and it also enabled her to take more of an interest in, and help with, the routine servicing, which itself helped her acquire knowledge useful in an emergency.

I think that the problem is that if you go to a level above the better end of the RYA Diesel course, you're into engine-specific detail. Of course, an equivalent course aimed at two-stroke and four-stroke outboards might be useful too, though even that might have to cope with more variability.

As I say, I experienced a very good diesel engine course, and it left me perfectly able and confident to handle most maintenance, up to and including stripping down the top end with the aid of the workshop manual. The one thing I won't touch is the injection pump and injectors, and that's because they are realistically beyond amateur capabilities for cleanliness and precision. If anything goes wrong with them, they come off and go to a specialist.

I think the RYA could do a better job of overseeing the Diesel Engine course. I had a really good experience, taught by an engineer who showed us all sorts of useful tricks, such as making our own gaskets! And he taught the principles of operation of all the major components of an engine. But it is clear from comments that have repeatedly been made on these fora that my experience is at the top end for this course, and that too many of them are taught at a very basic level, perhaps by people who don't have an engineering background.

For what it's worth, I think that the Diesel Engine course should be taught by experienced engineers who have also been trained as instructors.

 

[Hydrozoan]

... I experienced a very good diesel engine course, and it left me perfectly able and confident to handle most maintenance, up to and including stripping down the top end with the aid of the workshop manual. ...

But it is clear from comments that have repeatedly been made on these fora that my experience is at the top end for this course, and that too many of them are taught at a very basic level, perhaps by people who don't have an engineering background. ...

I think you may well have had a much higher prior level of mechanical knowledge/aptitude than did Mrs H, and that would surely help with feeling 'able and confident' to 'strip down the top end'. I did not expect her to feel that after after a 1-day course, starting from where she did. I cannot recall after more than 10 years what the precise objectives and scope of the course were when she did it, nor do I know what the minimum level of participants' prior knowledge was expected to be - which is an important factor in designing any course. I have no reason to think that Mrs H's course tutor did not have an engineering background, but I can imagine that the level of prior experience of some classes might enable a tutor to take them beyond the minimum required level.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think you may well have had a much higher prior level of mechanical knowledge/aptitude than did Mrs H, and that would surely help with feeling 'able and confident' to 'strip down the top end'. I did not expect her to feel that after after a 1-day course, starting from where she did. I cannot recall after more than 10 years what the precise objectives and scope of the course were when she did it, nor do I know what the minimum level of participants' prior knowledge was expected to be - which is an important factor in designing any course. I have no reason to think that Mrs H's course tutor did not have an engineering background, but I can imagine that the level of prior experience of some classes might enable a tutor to take them beyond the minimum required level.

On the contrary - I am not particularly mechanically gifted, and hate getting my hands dirty! But the course instilled CONFIDENCE that diesels were basically simple and that you couldn't do much harm by going for it!

 

[KompetentKrew]

I cannot recall after more than 10 years what the precise objectives and scope of the course were when she did it, nor do I know what the minimum level of participants' prior knowledge was expected to be - which is an important factor in designing any course.

Its objectives and scope fit with the remainder of the RYA syllabus - if you've grown up far inland and never sailed a boat before then you can take the Competent Crew; then Day Skipper will qualify you to sail a small keelboat in familiar waters. Similarly, the RYA Diesel Engine course is an introduction to diesel engines for people who've never fixed diesel engines before.

I have here a copy of the booklet we were given on the course:

The following couple of pages are illustrations of the four-stroke cycle, at about this level of complexity.

I'm busy right now, but tempted to scan more of the booklet later - it's less than 30 pages, but reading it now does somewhat warm my feelings on it. It's very basic, but the booklet is good for what it is - there is a troubleshooting checklist further on, which would be handy to have on board.

 

[Rappey]

You could probably learn a lot from youtube videos specifically for your engine..

 

[Hydrozoan]

Its objectives and scope fit with the remainder of the RYA syllabus ... the course is an introduction to diesel engines for people who've never fixed diesel engines before.

I have here a copy of the booklet we were given on the course ...

Thanks - but please don’t scan more (and perhaps breach RYA copyright!) on my account. We have Mrs H’s course booklet on the boat, and I think it will be the same or very similar. The objectives are as I expected, and as AP wrote at #8 (‘...to ensure that if your engine fails, you know enough to fix the usual problems and can follow a sensible diagnostic routine to identify a fault’) but also with emphasis on prevention.

My point was simply that we did not expect a 1-day course to give somebody with my wife’s background the confidence to ‘strip down the top end’ - though others might gain that - but she thought it, in its context, a good course and booklet and a foundation for learning more about a specific engine by routine maintenance.

 

[laika]

I've remarked before that the RYA diesel course seems to be very variable in quality.

I did the 5 day MCA course about 17 years ago at an engineering company in poole who I don't see currently listed in the MCA's list of course providers. Having a look at the AEC syllabus it does seems to have changed from the course I did but the notable thing about my course was it was taught by someone apparently incapable of teaching: he was a mechanic for the engineering company providing the course, just about to retire and while he may (or may not) have been a good mechanic, he had no public speaking ability and couldn't answer anyone's questions. If I had then the basic knowledge of how diesel engines work I would have benefitted from the hands on experience but as it was it was a waste of a week. Which is to say what we probably already know...a good course is only part of the story and so much depends on the teacher

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I did the 5 day MCA course about 17 years ago at an engineering company in poole who I don't see currently listed in the MCA's list of course providers. Having a look at the AEC syllabus it does seems to have changed from the course I did but the notable thing about my course was it was taught by someone apparently incapable of teaching: he was a mechanic for the engineering company providing the course, just about to retire and while he may (or may not) have been a good mechanic, he had no public speaking ability and couldn't answer anyone's questions. If I had then the basic knowledge of how diesel engines work I would have benefitted from the hands on experience but as it was it was a waste of a week. Which is to say what we probably already know...a good course is only part of the story and so much depends on the teacher

Very true - you need someone with both a good practical grasp of the subject AND the ability to pass it on. From my own experience of running courses, the latter is a skill that can be taught, but of course it does require the person concerned to recognize that it IS a skill. I was fortunate - my employer recognized the need for training when we decided that a course based round my skill set would benefit the organisation. And I am a practiced public speaker, so I don't have a problem with the practical matters of voice projection and judging the audience. But training as a trainer made the difference between a so-so effort and one that regularly got excellent feedback from attendees.

Feedback is also vital - not merely bro get a warm glow from good feedback, but to adjust the course presentation in the light of it. We always encouraged people to be honest, emphasizing that we did read it and did take note of it.