oldgit
Well-Known Member
A large sign stating this should be erected by law outside every marina and brokers office.
Engine Inspections on Canal/River based Motor Cruisers
- Thread starter gnomus
- Start date
A large sign stating this should be erected by law outside every marina and brokers office.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Hope all fixed now Iain? Have you used Alan Stafford? While based at Gloucester, he was happy to venture down to Portishead for Rafiki.
Momac
Well-Known Member
As a matter of interest the purchase of a boat from a coastal location does not guarantee absence of faults.
Despite a sea trial at the time of purchase a friend later found cooling issues . I suspect the sea was a bit lumpy that day so a log fast run was not achieved . There was old impeller debris in the cooler . He also found the raw water pumps worn and has replaced one / plans to replace the other. Suspect the water must be gritty off Brighton as my pumps with similar hours of fresh water are like new. The drive plate shattered on one engine.
The antifouling was very crusty/thick due to repeated past over coating and proved difficult to remove .
Despite a sea trial at the time of purchase a friend later found cooling issues . I suspect the sea was a bit lumpy that day so a log fast run was not achieved . There was old impeller debris in the cooler . He also found the raw water pumps worn and has replaced one / plans to replace the other. Suspect the water must be gritty off Brighton as my pumps with similar hours of fresh water are like new. The drive plate shattered on one engine.
The antifouling was very crusty/thick due to repeated past over coating and proved difficult to remove .
SimonD
Well-Known Member
I viewed a boat on the Thames this week where it had spent all its life. The broker did say that, as a river boat, the VHF, anchor windlass, trim tabs and nav lights would never have been used. This is on top of an engine that's never been run beyond fast idle. They would not allow running the engine in gear on the pontoon, so there was no way of knowing if the turbo worked, or the cooling system was at all effective.
I made an offer that reflected the work that needed doing to get up to coastal spec and the high risk of the engine needing serious work. That was refused.
I accept that coastal boats can have problems that a sea trial might not reveal, but I don't think that river based boats are worth the hassle and risk unless priced to reflect that (or a decent trial under load can be carried out).
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Although you cannot properly test the turbos and cooling system, you can establish it has good oil pressure and doesn't leak oil or water just with a long run up and down the river. You can also rev the engine right up in neutral. The gearbox will have had a pretty easy life too. The drive plate is an unknown - but unless the boat has hit a rock and seriously bent a prop, it's probably in great condition. The rest of the boat and especially the electrics have not spent years exposed to the corrosive sea air.
Buying an older sea based boat is pretty much a guarantee of needing expensive engine work. What ever you buy it will need the cooling system flushing or possibly stripping regardless. The turbo chargers if it has been used at sea will either have been replaced or will need replacing. Will it have diesel bug or water in the tanks? - maybe - but that applies regardless of use and is easy to sort with patience. I bought a very low hours sea based boat and the turbos were still tired - they go rusty even if you don't use them.
So I think your risk is a cooling system overhaul - needs looking at anyway - especially a sea boat. Not expensive. The main risk is possibly pair of turbo chargers. If the engine is a volvo kad, or a 41 series engine they are @ £800 each plus fitting. Not much in the scheme of boat owning.
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Momac
Well-Known Member
Not all river based boats have been 100% confined to the river .
I don't understand your point about items like VHF , anchor windlass trim tabs and nav lights as these items can easily be tested and may just as easily found to be faulty on a boat in a coastal marina.
I think you have realised that if you make offers on the basis you describe you are unlikely to succeed. Considering your opinion I am not sure why you viewed the subject boat in the first place really .
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Never ever take anything on board from the broker , make your own mind up its your cash . It’s in his small print that you employ the right trades to check what your buying and it’s suitable for the purpose required , I’ve heard this a million times .
Buying a boat on a restricted river hoping that it will perform ok on the sea is suicidal , the only clause you can apply is that you hold back a few thousand from the purchase price in the brokers account and carry out a sea trial when it lands at the coast , it’s been applied before when I have carried out engine inspections.
SimonD
Well-Known Member
I put it down as high risk, but I'm not going to argue with you! The fact it was a KAD 43 engine didn't do anything to ease my worries either. Although it was very clean, the coolant looked like blue milkshake.
Fair point, but this boat needed an anchor, chain, DSC VHF and aerial, antifouling (probably with barrier coat) anodes and a damn good compounding polish. Together with the transport by road, this tots up to at least £3k. On top of that, the owner was clearly not a serious seller and I got the feeling that whatever the surveyor found, she would not be taking anything off the price. Why did I view it? A rare boat in this country, a perfect fit for our requirements and the triumph of hope over experience!
simonfraser
Well-Known Member
the polish won’t make it any more reliable and what you do with it after the sale is not the sellers issue
if it’s a rare boat and you fancy it, buy it and move on
anchor / chain is v personal, start a thread
VHF and AF normal issues in a boat, perfection, not gonna find it
gnomus
New Member
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Quite a spectrum of opinion. I've been to see the boat in question now. And I rather liked it. I do have this nagging doubt about the possibility of trouble when the throttles are opened up in anger for the first time in years. Is there nothing that can be done to mitigate this issue? Someone I spoke to (not the broker) said that spinning up the engines whilst in neutral would at least let me know if the turbos were sticking. I also heard a (non-broker) suggestion of running up the engines to cruising RPMs, whilst the boat was securely fastened to the marina. Do these sound like possible ways forward? I ran the idea of holding back a few thousand at the broker, pending a successful sea trial - I have to say that he didn't seem very keen on the idea. Would a 'few thousand' likely be sufficient to cover a (realistic) worst-case scenario? Could anything useful be done during an engine inspection?
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Peoplebuy boats and often expect them to be like cars. Predictable reliable etc.
Boats are not at like cars. I am on my sixth boat. I have bought boats based on rivers and boats based on the sea. Unfortunately a sea trial on the day will only reveal so much. There is still no guarantee that the thing will work a month later.
An older boat will sooner or later need parts. Might be turbos or injector cleaning, definitely cooling system cleaning. What ever you do there is a risk. Best you can do is look at the overall condition and service history. I bought a sea based boat 7 years old with so called professional service history. No problems on two sea trials, ran beautifully. Wish I had never bought it, it was terrible. Years before bought a boat based on the Thames took it to sea etc and it was great for the 6 years we owned it.
If you buy a river based boat or a sea based boat don't expect to truck it to the new marina on the coast and set off for the canaries in it. Take some time and test it carefully looking for any issues. Short trips close to marina, build up distances and speeds. Fingers crossed they will be little ones. Fix them as you find them and build up confidence in the boat. Worst case you may find an engine issue, but its unlikely to need a brand new engine.
What make of boat and what engines are you considering.?
Boats are not at like cars. I am on my sixth boat. I have bought boats based on rivers and boats based on the sea. Unfortunately a sea trial on the day will only reveal so much. There is still no guarantee that the thing will work a month later.
An older boat will sooner or later need parts. Might be turbos or injector cleaning, definitely cooling system cleaning. What ever you do there is a risk. Best you can do is look at the overall condition and service history. I bought a sea based boat 7 years old with so called professional service history. No problems on two sea trials, ran beautifully. Wish I had never bought it, it was terrible. Years before bought a boat based on the Thames took it to sea etc and it was great for the 6 years we owned it.
If you buy a river based boat or a sea based boat don't expect to truck it to the new marina on the coast and set off for the canaries in it. Take some time and test it carefully looking for any issues. Short trips close to marina, build up distances and speeds. Fingers crossed they will be little ones. Fix them as you find them and build up confidence in the boat. Worst case you may find an engine issue, but its unlikely to need a brand new engine.
What make of boat and what engines are you considering.?
gnomus
New Member
Thanks kashurst
I understand that I'll have ongoing ... expenses. My mate (who has got me into this) tells me that BOAT = Bung On Another Thousand. So if I end up with engines that need a couple of thousand spent on them, that's one thing - even though I'd obvioulsy like to avoid that if I can. But what I'm not sure about is the risk of some 'terminal event' that would require engine replacement (which, given the cost of engines, could well be uneconomic).
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Terminal engine events are caused through neglect, ignoring warning signs, overloading the engines with a fouled hull and props or lack of servicing and ultimately damage caused by past events the current owner may not even know about, like a rope around a prop overloading the gearbox. Didn't break the gear box but it may have limited its life or damaged the drive plate. Or as in my case cack handed mechanics.
If you buy any boat regardless of the history, testing etc, be gentle with it and check everything very carefully. If it is running nice and smooth on a river or lake as fast as permitted then the core engine is probably sound. And it's pretty difficult to thrash one on a river these days.
If you then buy it, service everything that can be serviced first and see how she goes.
What ever trial you do watch the owner, and drive it as hard as circumstances permit.
If you can say what engines you are interested in people can give you an idea of costs for service stuff and things that wear out with time and age. Plus any known foibles.
If you buy any boat regardless of the history, testing etc, be gentle with it and check everything very carefully. If it is running nice and smooth on a river or lake as fast as permitted then the core engine is probably sound. And it's pretty difficult to thrash one on a river these days.
If you then buy it, service everything that can be serviced first and see how she goes.
What ever trial you do watch the owner, and drive it as hard as circumstances permit.
If you can say what engines you are interested in people can give you an idea of costs for service stuff and things that wear out with time and age. Plus any known foibles.
gnomus
New Member
Yes, of course. The engines are 2 x Yanmar 6LPA-STP Inboards (315 hp).
