Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

you guys obviously have nothing better to do...
and ok two of you I understand are retired, but the third one is meant to work hard for the next built thread :rolleyes:
 
Portofino said:
Shows enough dock pressure to get to the restricted part at the nipple that's all .
Does not show the vol that enventually supposed to flow through 3 inch pipes . Yes all you are doing is lubing ( hopefully) the impeller.
8 L / hour @ tick over feels low .

Hypochlorite- bleach is an electrolyte btw like salt.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info re bleach=electrolyte:encouragement:

As for the water flow, if we assume 2 bar in the hosepipe and 0.5bar of suction in the pump, and therefore put 2.5bar primary in this calculator, and 9mm hole,

https://www.tlv.com/global/TI/calculator/water-flow-rate-through-orifice.html

... you get 60 litres/minute water flow. I realise there are other factors and this is only a ball park number. That feels like plenty of cooling and a heck of a lot of lubrication. Using Mapism's recommended hose connectors with 14mm hole you get 140 litres/minute of water flow.

Even if it is not enough to cool the engines the thermal inertia means they won't overheat anyway in the 5 minutes it takes, and the flow is plenty for impeller lubrication. Some other symptoms: the strainers stay full, the exhaust overheat alarms don't trigger and the jacket temps stay at normal 80-85degC (I have electronic engine gauges in the engine room so can see temps etc).
 
Physics, oh dear oh dear.
There have been just 2 proper applications (3 if you count expected head from 1m sea water) of physics in the water available discussion. Since this isnt The Lounge, i'll point out what they were...
First is "the hose does not squish", combined with the hose does squish if flow is restricted (since your engines suck [no, not a raggie put-down]).
Next up is the 25L tub neither empties or fills.

Other easy things could be:
Put a bucket under the exhaust to measure flow.
Monitor engine temp: normal operation vs flushing.

Wild guesses of "well it cant be big enough" dont get many marks (some marks because estimation is important in first instances)

And then theres one that snuck through almost unnoticed. Sub atomic particles associated with corrosion..pray tell, apart from electrons (its quicker to type and easier to explain electrons as opposed to "sub-atomic particles), pray tell what sub-atomic particles. And, if you think ions are sub-atomic, you are wrong.


edit add:
And another thing: since most of you are probably (painfully) familiar with the pump impellers, you have a mighty fine idea of the pump capacity (per rev) and an idea (pulley system or no) of engine revs to pump revs.
 
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vas said:
you guys obviously have nothing better to do...
and ok two of you I understand are retired, but the third one is meant to work hard for the next built thread :rolleyes:
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The next one evolve it further , may I suggest same dia pipes from the boat tank suitable valved .
Spec the appropriate size of fresh tankage .Consider a separate flush tank that’s a better idea as you could mix n match water , winterisation ready made anti corrosion stuff or what ever - Rydlime etc etc .:encouragement:

Some sort of electrolyte measuring sensor in the bits you are attempting to protect .
To determine the length of time / vol needed if a water flush ,
And remeasure 1 day , 1 week etc over the shut down period to see if any salt comes back from unsighted “ crevices “ .
Then if so you know it’s time to re flush .

That’s your gold standard to aim for .
 
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jfm said:
As for the water flow, if we assume 2 bar in the hosepipe and 0.5bar of suction in the pump, and therefore put 2.5bar primary in this calculator, and 9mm hole, [...] you get 60 litres/minute water flow. I realise there are other factors...
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All well and good J, but one of the other factors is huge, and it's the pump+impeller actual capacity.
I mean, if we forget the 2 bar of the hose and leave just 0.5 bar of pump suction, replacing the 9mm hole with 76mm (3"), the resulting flow is a whopping 1900 L/min.
That would confirm PF theory of the higher flow from the seacock vs. the dock hose.
It would, if it weren't that such number is spectacularly and obviously wrong, well beyond any sanity check.
Can anyone imagine a boat discharging 30+ liters of water per SECOND each side, while idling? Seriously?!?

Imho, the reason why the engine raw water pump is happy with 60 L/min or whatever when idling is, quite simply, that this is what it's designed to handle at that speed, regardless of how large the POTENTIAL supply of water is.
If the pump would be man enough to draw more than that, the first symptom you would get when flushing with the seacock closed is a strainer drying out, which as I understood never happens in your boat - as surely doesn't in mine, either.
 
Lon nan Gruagach said:
Sub atomic particles associated with corrosion..pray tell, apart from electrons (its quicker to type and easier to explain electrons as opposed to "sub-atomic particles), pray tell what sub-atomic particles. And, if you think ions are sub-atomic, you are wrong.
Click to expand...
Any chances that you could rephrase that in a way that gives me at least a remote hope to understand half of it? :rolleyes:
 
MapisM said:
Any chances that you could rephrase that in a way that gives me at least a remote hope to understand half of it? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
It’s aimed at me P .
My son with a Masters in EEE @ UCL
Electronic Electrical Engineering
Put me right .I was still in electron mode , with neutrons and protons in the nucleus al la A lever Chemistry and Physics .
I was told there are up 30 “ sub atomic particles “ inc the electrons .
Just electrons alone with the other two is apparently I,am told in no uncertain terms a gross oversimplification .

Another one was Ohms law , apparently that’s a load of bolox

I can’t name them all the others sorry so thought “sub atomic particles “ was appropriate.
Apologies folks .
 
"Another one was Ohms law , apparently that’s a load of bolox "

this is a great thread, please can you explain the problem with Ohm's law.
 
MapisM said:
Any chances that you could rephrase that in a way that gives me at least a remote hope to understand half of it? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah, no probs.
Lets start with mixed metal problems on boats. Just like sticking a copper and an iron wire in a lemon, different metals in sea water (steel and aluminium) can act as a battery. Its all to do with how the electrons orbit the nucleus of the atom, and how an electrolyte (lemon juice, battery acid or sea water) can pull off an electron or 2.
Now, if you connect the bits of metal together, you have an electric circuit. A voltage develops and the elections flow merrily through the metal. The problem is that the atoms that the electrons came from try to flow to the same place (to meet up with their long lost electrons), and they try this by flowing through the water, leaving an atom sized hole in your boat.

So, we have (metal) atoms with electrons pulled off them (these atoms are then called ions), and electrons. Nowt else. Sure, both electrons and atoms and ionised atoms are made of stuff (quarks and gluons and all sorts of other made up bits-n-bobs) but only those 2 complete units are involved here. It would be a bit like detailing the bricks and mortar when you are talking about a city.
 
kashurst said:
"Another one was Ohms law , apparently that’s a load of bolox "

this is a great thread, please can you explain the problem with Ohm's law.
Click to expand...
I wish I could at MSc and PhD level in the EEE rarefied atmosphere it’s quote “ bolox “
Don’t shoot the messenger :)

Actually thinking about it there has been a few ( not all ) threads on here such battery probs ,cable connects , voltage drops , charger mysteries etc left with anomaly’s unexplained .
 
Lon nan Gruagach said:
Yeah, no probs.
Lets start with mixed metal problems on boats. Just like sticking a copper and an iron wire in a lemon, different metals in sea water (steel and aluminium) can act as a battery. Its all to do with how the electrons orbit the nucleus of the atom, and how an electrolyte (lemon juice, battery acid or sea water) can pull off an electron or 2.
Now, if you connect the bits of metal together, you have an electric circuit. A voltage develops and the elections flow merrily through the metal. The problem is that the atoms that the electrons came from try to flow to the same place (to meet up with their long lost electrons), and they try this by flowing through the water, leaving an atom sized hole in your boat.

So, we have (metal) atoms with electrons pulled off them (these atoms are then called ions), and electrons. Nowt else. Sure, both electrons and atoms and ionised atoms are made of stuff (quarks and gluons and all sorts of other made up bits-n-bobs) but only those 2 complete units are involved here. It would be a bit like detailing the bricks and mortar when you are talking about a city.
Click to expand...

And the Zinc protective “ sub atomic particles “ try to refill those holes in your boat bits .
Clearly on the pic that MapisM posted of his “ shell” that’s not happened.

Think of roads and paths in the city to allow them to move .Seawater can act as a taxi service, a facilitator of that good movement , hence my suggestion of keeping some if not all of the electrolyte ( salt ) and ensuring continuity from the Zinc in case there’s a back load of something .
In MapisM s case he has not got pencil anodes on his Dissimilar metal components, JFM has .
JFM s new revised charge air coolers are less dissimilar than the court case modals of yesterday .
MapisM has a large block of Zn hanging on the transom connected to the engine block with a copper earthing strap .
 
Portofino said:
And the Zinc protective “ sub atomic particles “ try to refill those holes in your boat bits .
Clearly on the pic that MapisM posted of his “ shell” that’s not happened.

Think of roads and paths in the city to allow them to move .Seawater can act as a taxi service, a facilitator of that good movement , hence my suggestion of keeping some if not all of the electrolyte ( salt ) and ensuring continuity from the Zinc in case there’s a back load of something .
In MapisM s case he has not got pencil anodes on his Dissimilar metal components, JFM has .
JFM s new revised charge air coolers are less dissimilar than the court case modals of yesterday .
MapisM has a large block of Zn hanging on the transom connected to the engine block with a copper earthing strap .
Click to expand...

My contention is that an ionised atom is not sub-atomic. Electrons clearly are.
So, apart from electrons (which are better referred to as electrons) and ionised atoms, what "sub-atomic particles" are involved?
 
Lon nan Gruagach said:
My contention is that an ionised atom is not sub-atomic. Electrons clearly are.
So, apart from electrons (which are better referred to as electrons) and ionised atoms, what "sub-atomic particles" are involved?
Click to expand...

Agree with the contention.

Answering the Q
I,was happy with the basic three school boy N , P and electrons (e)
But my son told me there’s a few more things going off than just the movement of electrons.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subatomic_particle

I used the term “sub atomic particles “ to include the basic e,s and any others if any any others get involved ?
How ever happy to stand corrected if it’s better ( for what ever reason ) to drop that term and flip back to e,s ?
 
Portofino said:
And the Zinc protective “ sub atomic particles “ try to refill those holes in your boat bits .
Click to expand...
Porto you wrote the above in response to "...leaving an atom sized hole in your boat". This is getting crazy. The zinc stops the atom sized hole happening in the boat in the first place, by being noble enough to "take one for the team" and accept an atom sized hole in itself, instead. No "refilling" occurs.
 
jfm said:
Porto you wrote the above in response to "...leaving an atom sized hole in your boat". This is getting crazy. The zinc stops the atom sized hole happening in the boat in the first place, by being noble enough to "take one for the team" and accept an atom sized hole in itself, instead. No "refilling" occurs.
Click to expand...

Think of it this way J ,
The Zinc freely donates electrons to replace the ones pulled off the boat parts .
( dissimilar metals / electrolyte etc ) .Thats how they work .
Thus leaves the Zn unstable in a salt solution , a but short of e,s so it dissolves taking one for the team as you say .The Zn + finds a mate in the sea and buggers off . = Depletion.

Question is can it easily find a partner to bond to in fresh ?
Your Zincs are having potential partners / mates to bind with flushed away

“ Continuity “
That I have raised earlier is needed for the e flow from the Zinc .
I think you need a full circuit .
So a dry stored hangered boat with the Zn hanging in the air , or worse taken off in Nov . Think a MAN engined ,but still seawater wet coolers inside with zero corrosion inhibitors , that what I was asking MapisM earlier find the common denominator why those “shells “ went at the flanges ?
His Zincs like mine are surrounded in the sea mine have plenty of mates / partners to go to and a very easy route ( roads taxis etc ) for the e,s to travel to the boat parts to shore up losses and prevent corrosion.
 
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Those flanges and MapisM,s went / corroded because of the dissimilar metals and latent electrolyte being in contact .My “ crevice “ contention .
But no Zinc e,s to back fill the e,s pulled out by the chemistry and small current creation .
So the Al ( or what ever atom had it’s e,s pulled off ) became reactive and found a mate in the solution so bonded and left , buggered off into solution leaving a hole / corrosion behind - hence the pic .

The thing is based on the Zinc donating e,s .
But the e,s need a route to the boat parts .

Backfilling of e,s
( I,ve dropped the term sub atomic particles btw )
 
jrudge said:
So all galvanised cars are doomed !
Click to expand...

It wears off , more if wet , won’t if dry .
Think your anchor chain .
Thins down without rubbing on the sand , that’s not helping.
If it’s thining it’s working .
When there’s no Zn left the steel e,s are pulled out and the Fe + reacts with the salts and the thing corrodes .
 
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