G
Guest
Guest
Re: English NOT British
Quite agree Brian as you'll see from my similar post below.
Geoff
Quite agree Brian as you'll see from my similar post below.
Geoff
Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
- Thread starter tome
- Start date
billmacfarlane
Active member
Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
If you ever meet her in the flesh you'll be bowled over by her sheer enthusiasm and zest. It's no surprise she's such a suberb sailor and it's really a pity that she practically lives in a country that admires her phenomenal skills more than this one - France. As far as I'm concerned she's a real sailing superstar . So what if she gets grouchy sometime ? Who doesn't ? What do you want ? As far as I know Mother Theresa didn't sail so we'll just have to make do with Ellen . Incidentally guys all this stuff down below about English , Scots etc. - you should be over it by now.
If you ever meet her in the flesh you'll be bowled over by her sheer enthusiasm and zest. It's no surprise she's such a suberb sailor and it's really a pity that she practically lives in a country that admires her phenomenal skills more than this one - France. As far as I'm concerned she's a real sailing superstar . So what if she gets grouchy sometime ? Who doesn't ? What do you want ? As far as I know Mother Theresa didn't sail so we'll just have to make do with Ellen . Incidentally guys all this stuff down below about English , Scots etc. - you should be over it by now.
DepSol
New member
Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
Sorry I dont beleive that Schumacher Barichello thing how many times has MS team mates had to yield to him or pass there tech info over. He dominates the team off the track thats where he gets his half second or his win from second place.
Yes he has had his crowning moments where he has done well but I dont think he is the absolute best and I think he is a cheat!
Dom
I am boating again ;-)
Sorry I dont beleive that Schumacher Barichello thing how many times has MS team mates had to yield to him or pass there tech info over. He dominates the team off the track thats where he gets his half second or his win from second place.
Yes he has had his crowning moments where he has done well but I dont think he is the absolute best and I think he is a cheat!
Dom
I am boating again ;-)
halcyon
Well-known member
Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
If interested 8.30 to 9.30 to-night Sky channel 551 Discovery, one hour interview with her on the race.
Brian
If interested 8.30 to 9.30 to-night Sky channel 551 Discovery, one hour interview with her on the race.
Brian
Ohdrat
New member
Re: Royal Screw Ups?
mmm not sure about all those explorers.. Shakelton I rate as a resounding achievement.. managing to get his crew to safety in what must be the most dangerous environment in the world.. He may not have achieved his goal but he certainly got his priorities right as apposed to Scott who did not... and still failed (Amundsen got there first)
re supporting success stories.. just look at the English Rugby Team (forget those loosers of a cricket team).. I don't see any one slagging them off..
Any way what does personality matter?? Ellen is a terrific sailor whether you warm to her character or not..
Also I would hesitate to judge anybody's personality by their portrail in the media.. if you don't know the person you certainly aren't qualified to make pronouncements on their personality!
mmm not sure about all those explorers.. Shakelton I rate as a resounding achievement.. managing to get his crew to safety in what must be the most dangerous environment in the world.. He may not have achieved his goal but he certainly got his priorities right as apposed to Scott who did not... and still failed (Amundsen got there first)
re supporting success stories.. just look at the English Rugby Team (forget those loosers of a cricket team).. I don't see any one slagging them off..
Any way what does personality matter?? Ellen is a terrific sailor whether you warm to her character or not..
Also I would hesitate to judge anybody's personality by their portrail in the media.. if you don't know the person you certainly aren't qualified to make pronouncements on their personality!
Joe_Cole
New member
Re: however, back to the issues?
So do I. Well said TCM!
Joe
So do I. Well said TCM!
Joe
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: however, back to the issues?
I agree totally with your points.
I'm not advocating looking back on adventurers of old or those of today as deserving of adulation, belonging to you or me, or going through their efforts for the good of the nation.
These people do it because they have a vision, are determined, dedicated, and single minded. And yes, sometimes arrogant, because you have to be, to believe that you really can do it better than anyone else.
My point is that people with this view on life, who get off their backsides and put themselves, and sometimes their teams, through extreme physical and emotional duress, and often life threatening situations, used to be applauded for their efforts. These days they are simply dissected for failings and flaws.
I agree totally with your points.
I'm not advocating looking back on adventurers of old or those of today as deserving of adulation, belonging to you or me, or going through their efforts for the good of the nation.
These people do it because they have a vision, are determined, dedicated, and single minded. And yes, sometimes arrogant, because you have to be, to believe that you really can do it better than anyone else.
My point is that people with this view on life, who get off their backsides and put themselves, and sometimes their teams, through extreme physical and emotional duress, and often life threatening situations, used to be applauded for their efforts. These days they are simply dissected for failings and flaws.
davidhand
New member
Re: English NOT British
I'm from Portsmouth and I'll answer to English, or British, prefer English though. But I hate being referred to as European. I had an uncle who would go as far as crossing out British and writing in English if asked on a form if he was a British citizen.
I'm from Portsmouth and I'll answer to English, or British, prefer English though. But I hate being referred to as European. I had an uncle who would go as far as crossing out British and writing in English if asked on a form if he was a British citizen.
nicho
Well-known member
Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
To a large degree your observations are correct - the Ferrari team orders debacle that has clouded F1 this year (particularly), has been a real turn off (and literally so with the TV viewing public). Sadly, team orders will always be evident when there is a No1 and No 2 driver (as in Ferrari's case). There is always a huge debate about who was the best F1 driver ever, Fangio, Senna, Nuvolari etc. but it's almost impossible to compare accurately over the different eras.
I am responsible for the running of a UK Manufacturers British Touring Car team, and we have always as policy had = No1 status, with NO team orders. The result has occasionally been expensive, as they are both very equal in talent, and in identical machinary - they occasionally clash!!. However, we would have it no other way, and the racing is never compromised.
The unfortunate thing in F1 is that by fair means or by team orders, the result is a foregone conclusion.
Most Teams in F1 will acknowledge Schumacher ins worth half a second in any car.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with boats!!
To a large degree your observations are correct - the Ferrari team orders debacle that has clouded F1 this year (particularly), has been a real turn off (and literally so with the TV viewing public). Sadly, team orders will always be evident when there is a No1 and No 2 driver (as in Ferrari's case). There is always a huge debate about who was the best F1 driver ever, Fangio, Senna, Nuvolari etc. but it's almost impossible to compare accurately over the different eras.
I am responsible for the running of a UK Manufacturers British Touring Car team, and we have always as policy had = No1 status, with NO team orders. The result has occasionally been expensive, as they are both very equal in talent, and in identical machinary - they occasionally clash!!. However, we would have it no other way, and the racing is never compromised.
The unfortunate thing in F1 is that by fair means or by team orders, the result is a foregone conclusion.
Most Teams in F1 will acknowledge Schumacher ins worth half a second in any car.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with boats!!
mtb
New member
Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes
He opened the show at Messe Essen one year , I had my trade stand there with my carburetters he stopped dead in his tracks and showed interest after a good look through he gave a grin and a nod then off into the crowd, I made a point of letting customers make the first move so didn't speak to him but I think he knows a fair amount cos he liked looking at me carb's you could see him looking at the Sloex updraught's . Maybe he had an early merc .
Cheers
Mick
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a steel ex trawler or tug cheap needing work
He opened the show at Messe Essen one year , I had my trade stand there with my carburetters he stopped dead in his tracks and showed interest after a good look through he gave a grin and a nod then off into the crowd, I made a point of letting customers make the first move so didn't speak to him but I think he knows a fair amount cos he liked looking at me carb's you could see him looking at the Sloex updraught's . Maybe he had an early merc .
Cheers
Mick
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a steel ex trawler or tug cheap needing work
Ohdrat
New member
Re: English NOT British
errrrmmm Ellen's family come from Skye .. I believe.. yup the land of Flora Macdonald and Bonny Prince C! lol
errrrmmm Ellen's family come from Skye .. I believe.. yup the land of Flora Macdonald and Bonny Prince C! lol
tcm
...
Re: however, back to the issues?
It's a fine line innit?
You have interst in a sport, or other activity. You may have watched with interest, a better viewpoint, expertise even. When they've finished a particular competition or a body of work, you metaphorically slap them on the back, praise them. Then, there's the temptation to say what they could have done better! Even if they win, and espacially if they don't win, or fail.
Question is...is that allowed? Do they know their faults anyway? (often the answer is yes). Although...professional tennis players have coaches don't they? Even champions. Bet top players don't turn to their coach and say "yeah well at least I'm better than you any day!"
I have been drinking, so can't think further,clearly, at the moment!
It's a fine line innit?
You have interst in a sport, or other activity. You may have watched with interest, a better viewpoint, expertise even. When they've finished a particular competition or a body of work, you metaphorically slap them on the back, praise them. Then, there's the temptation to say what they could have done better! Even if they win, and espacially if they don't win, or fail.
Question is...is that allowed? Do they know their faults anyway? (often the answer is yes). Although...professional tennis players have coaches don't they? Even champions. Bet top players don't turn to their coach and say "yeah well at least I'm better than you any day!"
I have been drinking, so can't think further,clearly, at the moment!
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: however, back to basics
We're back to Tome's original post which summarised things rather nicely
she's being criticised for the wrong things..not her sailing skills, not her route, not her grit and determination, not her courage in getting up that mast and sorting things out...
...but instead on her demeanour, personality and looks <s>
Truely sad, and as Tome said, the French in the meantime adore her for the very reasons we seem to ignore
We're back to Tome's original post which summarised things rather nicely
she's being criticised for the wrong things..not her sailing skills, not her route, not her grit and determination, not her courage in getting up that mast and sorting things out...
...but instead on her demeanour, personality and looks <s>
Truely sad, and as Tome said, the French in the meantime adore her for the very reasons we seem to ignore
tcm
...
Re: okay but
Firstly, note that the french are mental about sailing. By contrast, Eric Cantona was worshipped as ace footbaler (ok, ignore the lunatic west ham attack) in the uk, ignored in football-disinterested France.
Second, we have a dreadful and hopelessly unregulated press. BrendanS and TCM are total perverts headline! Next day (perhaps) they print sorry, no they aren't. Outrageous. They print every single tiny bit of rubbish, to sell papers, and sell it as "in the public interest" avoiding sensible discussion of issues. Worse they promote a "Hello" style of superficial analysis and judgement. Casual reporting of actual race, then easy peasy "yeah but tellus how you feel" interviews afterwards.
Nonetheless, we should not give up the right to analyse and even criticise. A bit? Okay, provided that it is couched within vaguely sensible terms, and even addressthe so-called irrelavncies which ain't irrelevant at this level such as...
Ellen is brilliant at race sailing no question BUT since she is after raising whole heaps of money and fronting sponsored boats then MAYBE possibly could use the help of a TV consultant person like the politcos use (espec G Brown of late) to help her lose the scowl from time to time? After all, there's no very valid criticism of route technique etc since she thrashed'em. Her "problems" now revolve around the loot-raising, and she should have been more hauled-around the TV stations by now, imho.
Firstly, note that the french are mental about sailing. By contrast, Eric Cantona was worshipped as ace footbaler (ok, ignore the lunatic west ham attack) in the uk, ignored in football-disinterested France.
Second, we have a dreadful and hopelessly unregulated press. BrendanS and TCM are total perverts headline! Next day (perhaps) they print sorry, no they aren't. Outrageous. They print every single tiny bit of rubbish, to sell papers, and sell it as "in the public interest" avoiding sensible discussion of issues. Worse they promote a "Hello" style of superficial analysis and judgement. Casual reporting of actual race, then easy peasy "yeah but tellus how you feel" interviews afterwards.
Nonetheless, we should not give up the right to analyse and even criticise. A bit? Okay, provided that it is couched within vaguely sensible terms, and even addressthe so-called irrelavncies which ain't irrelevant at this level such as...
Ellen is brilliant at race sailing no question BUT since she is after raising whole heaps of money and fronting sponsored boats then MAYBE possibly could use the help of a TV consultant person like the politcos use (espec G Brown of late) to help her lose the scowl from time to time? After all, there's no very valid criticism of route technique etc since she thrashed'em. Her "problems" now revolve around the loot-raising, and she should have been more hauled-around the TV stations by now, imho.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: okay but
Points taken, but we're not talking about the idiot press here. We're talking about points made by people who claim they sail!
People on this forum at least should be able to differentiate between crappy press 'Hello' type comments, and ability to sail.
True, she needs a mentor to help her through the press crap. I still maintain that yachty type people who actually go out to sea and experience to some extent what she has accomplished, should applaud her for her accomplishment, not 'diss' her at every opportunity
I rather suspect that many opinions foisted on these forums are for effect and bravado, and are not beliefs that would be held for long in the rough and tumble of a bar after a hard days sailing
Points taken, but we're not talking about the idiot press here. We're talking about points made by people who claim they sail!
People on this forum at least should be able to differentiate between crappy press 'Hello' type comments, and ability to sail.
True, she needs a mentor to help her through the press crap. I still maintain that yachty type people who actually go out to sea and experience to some extent what she has accomplished, should applaud her for her accomplishment, not 'diss' her at every opportunity
I rather suspect that many opinions foisted on these forums are for effect and bravado, and are not beliefs that would be held for long in the rough and tumble of a bar after a hard days sailing
tcm
...
Re: nuff said! nm
.
.
Mike_02
New member
Re: English NOT British
MY dad came from Glasgow but i didn't.......i think ellen came from near derby
MY dad came from Glasgow but i didn't.......i think ellen came from near derby
Mike_02
New member
Braveheart
I was in Scotland for a time just after Braveheart came out. I got so fed up with the crap and abuse that i got for most scots.
Acording to common views at the time every single thing that has ever happend in Scotland that ended up eing bad was caused by the English.
Well if we read our history books we will see that this is not true and the SCOTS share half if not more of the blame for all the bad events in Scottish history.
And i also say that if the scots want real self rule then lets give it to them.
I know for a fact that if you take a real close look into the amount of money that english people pay in taxes vs the amount that is spent per head on everything...then the scots et a lot more than we do....just check the money given to the scottish tourist board..it is massive compared to the english TB.
..??
I was in Scotland for a time just after Braveheart came out. I got so fed up with the crap and abuse that i got for most scots.
Acording to common views at the time every single thing that has ever happend in Scotland that ended up eing bad was caused by the English.
Well if we read our history books we will see that this is not true and the SCOTS share half if not more of the blame for all the bad events in Scottish history.
And i also say that if the scots want real self rule then lets give it to them.
I know for a fact that if you take a real close look into the amount of money that english people pay in taxes vs the amount that is spent per head on everything...then the scots et a lot more than we do....just check the money given to the scottish tourist board..it is massive compared to the english TB.
..??
halcyon
Well-known member
Re: English NOT British
Yes she came from Derbyshire.
Funny how everyone is trying to claim her, bar the English.
Are we brain washed that winning is wrong, taking part is more important.
Brian
Yes she came from Derbyshire.
Funny how everyone is trying to claim her, bar the English.
Are we brain washed that winning is wrong, taking part is more important.
Brian
sailbadthesinner
New member
Re: English NOT British
i think most people are very proud
it hink she is one gutsy lady
but that is an aside
she is an excellent sailor first
gutsy/determined second
female third
english fourth
Wedding can be an anagram of 'JUST HANDOVER THE MONEY' if you can't spell.
i think most people are very proud
it hink she is one gutsy lady
but that is an aside
she is an excellent sailor first
gutsy/determined second
female third
english fourth
Wedding can be an anagram of 'JUST HANDOVER THE MONEY' if you can't spell.