Ellen M and shame about the Ashes

[tome]

Ellen M and shame about the Ashes

Rant begins >

So we have this fantastic sailor in Ellen. Monumental achievements which we especially should be proud of, given that we're a sailing forum. And British. What do we do? Berate her because of her so-called miserable demeanour! Do you mean she's not photogenic? Do you confuse her grim determination with a lack of personality? Could you have done what she has, with a small frame surrounded by a bucket load of guts? Would you have climbed that mast?

The French love her to bits because they admire her passion and skill. I don't see how we can ever mount a challenge with this sort of attitude, and I mean any sort of national challenge.

We should support her in her every endeavours, as would a Kiwi Ozzie or S African or French. It may be that this forum has demonstrated why we can never be great sporting achievers, we just don't believe in ourselves.

<Rant over

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes

All the great adventurers that have been remembered have usually screwed up royally. Scott etc. That sort of epic adventure used to be admired for the determination, not for the finesse.

Ever read any of Jacque C's early books on how he experimented with bottled air diving. Health and Safety would impound his boat nowadays. They are still a wonderful read, full of adventure and bodging, and wonderfully descriptive authorship. Totally captured my imagination as a kid. Stories of diving in to sea caves deeper than any yet done, with pictures to go with it. Then you read the bits where they nearly died. The risks taken were incredible. Modern divers would laugh though....kids stuff.

We, as a nation, seem to have lost the spirit of adventure to a bunch of armchair critics! To admonish Priddy for not having completed his quest, and not going fast enough!

would rant on, but seem to have lost the spirit to do so

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes

>>>Monumental achievements which we especially should be proud of, given that we're a sailing forum. And British. What do we do? Berate her because of her so-called miserable demeanour... The French love her to bits because they admire her passion and skill.

Don't forget she was 2nd in the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. Perhaps non-sailing TV viewers value her achievements more than sailors do. BTW, Britian reigning Olympic sailing champions (3 Golds & 1 Silver) too.

 

[tcm]

however, back to the issues?

Ellen has triumphed again, and no shortage of plaudits. Around the same time, England rugby thrashed south africa. So, no shortage of grit in the country it would seem, either.

But, according to some, twould seem that we all have to promise undying fondness and love for Ellen and everything about her. And anyone who demurs in this gospel is un-english? I think not. Oh, and also Priddy is also wonderful. And if anyone says otherwise there's also that "you couldn't do that then" non-argument.

Charity begins at home, so we should be charitable, and give praise where it's due. Much-vaunted grit and determination also begins at home too. Belief in oneself. Change this into a belief in the achievements of others results in a backward-looking country, still wittering about the achievements of others, in past times.

Ellen isn't "ours" to be proud of. Neither is Priddy. Nor the cricket team. They decided to do stuff, and went ahead with various degrees of success. If they succeed, it's their success. Not mine. Not yours. And if they fail, it's their failure too. Not yours. Not mine.

Success isn't borne out of cheering on others, and saying how blimmin marvellous they are. It comes from hardheaded determination, an arrogance that doesn't quite agree with the adulation over today's champions. New champions secretly think that they can do better. The same applies to those in less televisualy appealling and non-sporting industries. All of them do it for themselves.

Thin-thinking no-hopers would have us believe that successful sportspeople put themselves through hell for the glory of britain. Perhaps they also believe that succesful industrialists work hard in order to pay lots of tax. They don't.

So, how to perhaps do even better? By praising the unprepared no-hopers as every independent predicted Priddy would be? By limitless adulation and fawning over Ellen? Neither, really, imho.

 

[jimi]

Back to reality

We are talking about a nation that had as its number one sports personality , David Beckham and had Princess Di as a leading figure in the greatest Britain of all time (along with such worthies as John Lennon)?

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: however, back to the issues?

totally agree

 

[nicho]

Re: Ellen M and shame about the Ashes

Am I not right in thinking the criticism of Ellen was a fire deliberately started by a couple of posters from MBM site as nothing more than a wind up? (brave move with our firefighters nobly withdrawing their services). They were certainly crowing about "winding up the Raggies" over there. I cannot believe that anyone, Raggie or Stinkie who knows anything about the forces of the sea, could REALLY do anything other than admire the strength and courage of the girl. OK so she wept a couple of times, more in tiredness and frustration than despair, but at least she had the guts to do it in front of the camera - no doubt the male competitors had their weak moments as well.

As for the suggestion she is only successful because of better equipment, how many on this, or any other forum, could have done as well in the same boat

It's often said that Michael Schumacher only wins because he has the best car - it's true he has, and yet he consistantly runs rings around his team mate (I do know Rubens and believe me he is also awesome). Put Schumacher into any F1 car and he's worth half a second.

It's true, the Brits hate success, and love disaster from their sporting stars - it all stems from the tabloids. For sure, she does it for herself and not UK Plc, but we should still be proud of her regardless of the fact that she does not fit into whatever personality mould we feel she should, as a heroin..

 

[Guest]

Read the book, seen the video

Having done the above, a few thoughts on the subject from other posting on this thread.

Britons do not hate winners. On the contrary. I don’t know anyone with this point of view.

Saying that she only managed because of the money she has is bollocks. She had less than no money and managed to raise with a partner £1.5M!! Astonishing. I couldn’t have done this from her starting point. Having also read Pete Goss’ book it is apparent that doing this is more difficult than the race and many competitors regards making the start line as almost an end in itself.

How she was 2nd to Beckham in the BBC sports personality is beyond me, although it is called “personality” and I can see he could be considered to have more of that.

She was not even mentioned in the advert for this years competition despite winning RdR – maybe it was too late(?)

She can be a bit “whinny” – “I couldn’t have given any more”, “I’ve got to climb the mast again”etc etc and I would have thought that in this type of race it was obvious how difficult it was going to be – although tiredness can make people a bit weepy. Again, I could not cope with so little sleep.

I think anybody who mentions her looks is well out of order. Talk about subjective.

I’m not sure how much actual sailing is involved – rather than just keeping the boat going.

Although people like EM, DB etc do get an enormous amount from their exploits and there’s no doubt that money has “degraded” such endeavours I think they are proud to have done something for their country – witness the tears that often flow when the National Anthem is played. (Pete Goss said he was determined to get the Red Ensign over the finish line).

I think she is proud for her country (although a little disappointed in our response or lack of it. I also think we should be proud of her, our rugby teams, football team, Tim Henman, Ben Ainslie, and on and on. When you consider the size of our nation and the spread of our achievement it is quite something (I nearly said “awesome” – ouch).

Geoff

 

[Mike_02]

English NOT British

She like myself and most of us all are ENGLISH not BRITISH.

I work a lot in Scotland and am fed up with al the stuff i get from them ..so it's time to fight back and i start her.


I have never been British but have always been ENGLISH as i am from ENGLAND and so is Ellen...!!

 

[davel]

Derbyshirian not English n.m.

Dave L.

 

[jimi]

Och grow up!

Excellent bit of stirring, young man, but I doubt if any of us can claim pure breeding of any sort! You start of being a denizen of the milky way, then part of the Solar System, part of planet Earth, a member of the human race, a European, then a Brit, followed by English or Scots, then Cornish or Glaswegian etc, etc ad infinitum and to pretend otherwise is just plain childish!

 

[Guest]

Re: English NOT British

Quite right.

Scots may be lovely people but they're the ones who've got their own parliament - so they started it!

Geoff

 

[Guest]

Re: Och grow up!

So why do Scots want self rule so bad then.

Geoff

 

[jimi]

Well ...

Think it really goes back to the days of Maggie when she essentially shut down Scotland and half a generation myself included were forced into economic migration. Those left were understandably peed off but even then the method of counting in the referendum was engineered in such a way that Tony's pet project would'nt fail. Most of my family and acquaintances see the Scottish parliament as an added level of bureacracy and cost. There alwys has been the us & them but most famillies I know are at least a quarter Scottish,Welsh or Irish.... some are even English!

 

[MarkR]

Re: English NOT British

English as in Italian (i.e. descended from Roman Invaders)?
English as in French (i.e. descended from Norman conquerors)?
English as in German (i.e ruled by the House of Hanover)?
English as in Scottish (i.e. first ruled by Scottish King after union of the crowns)?

or indeed Scottish as in Irish (i.e. descended from Pictish invaders)?

or

English as in xenophobic (i.e. dropping the United Kingdom part when referring to Britain and so p*ssing of the Northern Irish)?


.... really, who cares?

 

[Guest]

Re: Well ...

Jimi

I did say the Scots were lovely...some of my best friends are Scottish.

But, it does feel a bit one sided down here. Scottish parliament where English MPs can't sit. English (OK British) parliament where Scots MPs can! Even in the English government, every voice you hear is Scottish!

One could be forgiven for thinking there's a conspiracy. And, remember - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the bastards aren't out to get you!

Geoff

 

[webcraft]

Re: Ellen whiny

The great thing about the Ellen docu is that she used the camera to report honestly and give us a feel of what it was really like and how it made her feel.

A male skipper could never honestly give as much of themselves to a documentary - for fear of the ridicule here if for no other reason. Stiff upper lip and all that, chaps.

So don't call her whiny.

(whinny is what horses do, btw)

- Nick

 

[Guest]

Re: Ellen whiny

Quite right about whiny - it just didn't look right when I originally wrote it.

BTW. I did clarify that I thought it was brought on by tiredness - which can make us all a bit like that. So don't get too defensive.

Geoff

 

[webcraft]

Re: Ellen whiny

Defensive, moi?

 

[halcyon]

Re: English NOT British

No the Angles, as in Anglo-saxon.

In fact I have put made in England on all our products since the early 80's.
Got fed up with made in Scotland/Wales, while the English always put UK or Great Britain.

How is it that we are the only one with no parliament, or what they allow us is run by Scot's.


Brian