Electric inboard engine, equivelant diesel inboard.

[Fr J Hackett]

Exceptionally out of date unfortunately. They now have an Oceanvolt worth tens of thousands of dollars, and are on their third electric motor for various reasons having given away the original in the UK. They motor for hours at a time sometimes on their battery bank and have a range of hundreds of miles. During their Svalbard trip they bought a petrol generator, which they didn't use on that trip but have subsequently used to extend range or recharge. When going longer distance under motor they usually motor sail which extends range considerably, only requiring low revs from the motor. They have detail on this in their forum for Patrons.

Also, technically, it replaced two diesel engines since they bought a second which also didn't work! Arguably both would have worked had Dan and Kika had knowledge of diesel engine repair.

I very much doubt that they can continuously motor for hundreds of miles.

 

[Tranona]

It is instructive to visit this site oceanvolt.com/solutions/private/monohull/ to get a clearer view of the state of the current market from the firm that is arguably the market leader. I have gone straight to the monohull section, but there is a similar one for multihulls. There are "testimonials" from about 150 owners or builders of boats that have either been fitted with their units or are planned to be. Reading this will help dispel a lot of the waffle on this thread about the current state of development.

In terms of types of boats and usage they fall into 4 broad categories

Day boats
High performance/racing boats
Offshore/ocean cruisers
Retrofit - a wide range of different type.

The first 2 are unconcerned with the range issue - many reporting that 50+ miles at lowish cruising speed is more than adequate. The third are almost all hybrids with backup generators reflecting the fact that it is impossible to generate sufficient energy to run such boats with all the equipment expected for large ocean sailing boat on electric only. The retrofits follow much the same pattern in terms of pure electric and hybrid and owners happy with the constraints and cost implications - they would say that!

It is also worth noting that a significant number of the boats shown are in rendered form, proposed or just one off experiments. I have not actually counted them but my guess only about half of the boats featured actually have had any substantial use.

Earlier I posted on using the facility to configure and price a system for individual boats. Worth doing for boats you are interested in if you want some hard data to help answer the original question - is electric power an alternative to diesel for your boat in the way that you use. Secondary questions - could you live with the constraints and could you justify the cost.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Deleted

 

[lustyd]

I very much doubt that they can continuously motor for hundreds of miles.

They don't do it the way people do in a diesel, but yes they can and do

 

[lustyd]

The first 2 are unconcerned with the range issue - many reporting that 50+ miles at lowish cruising speed is more than adequate. The third are almost all hybrids with backup generators reflecting the fact that it is impossible to generate sufficient energy to run such boats with all the equipment expected for large ocean sailing boat on electric only. The retrofits follow much the same pattern in terms of pure electric and hybrid and owners happy with the constraints and cost implications - they would say that!

You forgot to start this with in my opinion. Quite useful when you're navel gazing and speaking for others who may well completely disagree

 

[BurnitBlue]

Poeple can buy electric scooters, electric bikes and even electric roller skates. Is there a market for an electric Yula or an electric pair of oars?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

They don't do it the way people do in a diesel, but yes they can and do

Care to show where they say they can motor continuously for hundreds of miles.

 

[lustyd]

Care to show where they say they can motor continuously for hundreds of miles.

If you join their Patreon you can ask them yourself. It's a closed forum which I no longer have access to.

 

[lustyd]

Poeple can buy electric scooters, electric bikes and even electric roller skates. Is there a market for an electric Yula or an electric pair of oars?

We call those electric outboards but yes you can now get a stick with a prop on the end for very short range and light weight use

 

[Tranona]

It's not a technical issue, it's just unnecessary. Charge times aren't that long and range allows for driving longer than is safe anyway. For power boats it might be an issue but for sailing boats range can and is sufficient for many use cases. Sure, if you decide to go to the Scillies for the weekend from Brighton and then need to be back on Monday morning against wind and tide you'll struggle, but that's poor planning and is a use-case where diesel still makes sense, although it's still not advisable with diesel!

It's also unnecessary to put batteries in the keel, there is plenty of space on most boats for sufficient battery storage, especially once you remove the diesel tanks and associated pipes, filters and other paraphernalia. This has been demonstrated several times by builders, and shown off on YouTube to those open to the idea. Unfortunately flat Earthers are gonna flat Earth no matter what evidence you show them

That is simply not true. While the current limited range systems do fit into somewhat similar space to a diesel and its tank - plenty of examples available and why it is quite straightforward to convert existing boat designs. However it is not possible if you want the same range using only on board energy storage. Range with diesel power is currently 7-10 times that of electric. You are not making a direct comparison. How many more times do I have to say it is all about energy storage density and recharging. When the next generation of batteries come on line with at least double the density then it might be possible to provide an acceptable range for cruising boats, or design a boat that incorporates greater capacity as part of the ballast with range approaching diesel. Of course that would take the recharging challenges to another level.

 

[flaming]

Of course that would take the recharging challenges to another level.

Not really.

Logistically speaking the charging of boats is about the easiest thing. Marina boats are essentially already supplied with a 13A supply, which for most use cases is fine. Charge up slowly during the week ready for the weekend. The marina might need to beef up its supply (and probably work out a way of charging you properly for the power....) but in essence the infrastructure is already there.
Might need a "fuel dock" with a handful of rapid chargers for those who either aren't in a marina berth and need more range than their solar / wind has provided in the week, or if you really need more range faster. But the reality is that long charge times fit well with the way that the vast majority of people use their boats.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you join their Patreon you can ask them yourself. It's a closed forum which I no longer have access to.

No thanks so I take it you can't substantiate your claim that they can motor for hundreds of miles.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

We call those electric outboards but yes you can now get a stick with a prop on the end for very short range and light weight use

From what I have read you can if you have deep enough pockets buy a stick with a prop on the end that is very powerful up to about 20Hp equivalent and with good duration ( couple of hours and more depending on buying a couple of expensive batteries to go with your expensive stick and propellor)

 

[Tranona]

Not really.

Logistically speaking the charging of boats is about the easiest thing. Marina boats are essentially already supplied with a 13A supply, which for most use cases is fine. Charge up slowly during the week ready for the weekend. The marina might need to beef up its supply (and probably work out a way of charging you properly for the power....) but in essence the infrastructure is already there.
Might need a "fuel dock" with a handful of rapid chargers for those who either aren't in a marina berth and need more range than their solar / wind has provided in the week, or if you really need more range faster. But the reality is that long charge times fit well with the way that the vast majority of people use their boats.

I was thinking about using solar and regeneration which is is being pushed by some here as the technology that meets the replenishment needs of boats doing ocean crossing. Can this keep up with both domestic needs and storing enough energy for 100 miles of motoring rather than 50?

Shoreside charging as you say is not an issue for those who can cope with the limited range and top up overnight in a marina. There are a number of examples of this in the testimonials I linked to. However when you move to ocean cruising almost all are hybrids or are prepared (like UMA) to live in a low energy consumption environment. Just like Hiscock in his day. It makes me chuckle when the picture is painted suggesting that electric will always be replenished during an ocean crossing to give an available 50 miles whereas diesel is like Lidl "when its gone, its gone". That is ridiculous because the skipper will try to ensure he arrives in port with enough fuel to get in. Just learning to operate within the constraints of what you have available.

BTW there are a lot of boats in there (mostly in the design or one of stage that would appeal to you.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I was thinking about using solar and regeneration which is is being pushed by some here as the technology that meets the replenishment needs of boats doing ocean crossing. Can this keep up with both domestic needs and storing enough energy for 100 miles of motoring rather than 50?

Shoreside charging as you say is not an issue for those who can cope with the limited range and top up overnight in a marina. There are a number of examples of this in the testimonials I linked to. However when you move to ocean cruising almost all are hybrids or are prepared (like UMA) to live in a low energy consumption environment. Just like Hiscock in his day. It makes me chuckle when the picture is painted suggesting that electric will always be replenished during an ocean crossing to give an available 50 miles whereas diesel is like Lidl "when its gone, its gone". That is ridiculous because the skipper will try to ensure he arrives in port with enough fuel to get in. Just learning to operate within the constraints of what you have available.

BTW there are a lot of boats in there (mostly in the design or one of stage that would appeal to you.

With the 'right' size boat about 50 foot and the right size battery bank say 1000 Amp Hr Lithium that allows deep discharge and a boat speed of 7kts plus for good regeneration and a big solar array 700 watts or more then I think it's perfectly possible. However that is expensive.

 

[Tranona]

From what I have read you can if you have deep enough pockets buy a stick with a prop on the end that is very powerful up to about 20Hp equivalent and with good duration ( couple of hours and more depending on buying a couple of expensive batteries to go with your expensive stick and propellor)

Surely you mean 2 HP? Actually electric outboards such as Torqeedo an E Propulsion have developed to the stage where they are viable alternatives to petrol. Even though they are over twice the price they offer enough benefits to attract buyers.

Inboards are nowhere near that stage, Not because of the motor is inefficient but because of the high cost bulk and complexity of providing power for it compared with Diesels.

 

[Tranona]

With the 'right' size boat about 50 foot and the right size battery bank say 1000 Amp Hr Lithium that allows deep discharge and a boat speed of 7kts plus for good regeneration and a big solar array 700 watts or more then I think it's perfectly possible. However that is expensive.

That is indeed possible and there are one or 2 example of that in the testimonials. However most examples of that size boat also have the living facilities of a small apartment so have a huge generator as well to cope with that and to feed the electric propulsion if extra speed/range is required.

 

[flaming]

I was thinking about using solar and regeneration which is is being pushed by some here as the technology that meets the replenishment needs of boats doing ocean crossing. Can this keep up with both domestic needs and storing enough energy for 100 miles of motoring rather than 50?

Shoreside charging as you say is not an issue for those who can cope with the limited range and top up overnight in a marina. There are a number of examples of this in the testimonials I linked to. However when you move to ocean cruising almost all are hybrids or are prepared (like UMA) to live in a low energy consumption environment. Just like Hiscock in his day. It makes me chuckle when the picture is painted suggesting that electric will always be replenished during an ocean crossing to give an available 50 miles whereas diesel is like Lidl "when its gone, its gone". That is ridiculous because the skipper will try to ensure he arrives in port with enough fuel to get in. Just learning to operate within the constraints of what you have available.

BTW there are a lot of boats in there (mostly in the design or one of stage that would appeal to you.

Yeah, in a way I think race yachts are the most likely early adopters. All I need is enough power to get home from half way round the IOW. The day I can do that for less weight than a Diesel and a tank of fuel I'm in. (well, if I can also afford it)

With hydro generation speed is your friend. The IMOCAs, for example, deploy their hydrogenerators for just a few hours per day. Obviously that's at one end of the speed scale, but even more modest boats capable of 7 knots in trade wind conditions would put about 8KWh in the battery every 24 hours. Couple with some solar and the fully self sufficient ocean cruiser isn't all that far off.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Surely you mean 2 HP? Actually electric outboards such as Torqeedo an E Propulsion have developed to the stage where they are viable alternatives to petrol. Even though they are over twice the price they offer enough benefits to attract buyers.

Inboards are nowhere near that stage, Not because of the motor is inefficient but because of the high cost bulk and complexity of providing power for it compared with Diesels.

No you can get powerful ones

Cruise 10.0 T — Torqeedo Shop Uk

 

[Tranona]

No you can get powerful ones

Cruise 10.0 T — Torqeedo Shop Uk

Yes, I know, but they have not made much progress yet for exactly the same reasons as inboards - range and cost.