Electric Boats

[Ian h]

strange that the OP has not replied but has been online

Optima Electric Boats
New member
Joined Sunday at 11:42
Last seen Tuesday at 11:00

 

[Mistroma]

strange that the OP has not replied but has been online

Optima Electric Boats
New member
Joined Sunday at 11:42
Last seen Tuesday at 11:00

Not too surprised if he decided it was a bad idea once he'd read posts #2 to #22. I doubt he felt like replying to many fairly specific points raised and that we weren't really the ideal target audience he expected.

 

[dunedin]

Perhaps that was because the advert pretty much highlighted how useless the product would be to many on this forum. The people it might appeal to are not likely to do much boating. You could argue that the result barely qualified as an advert, more like a warning to consider usage very carefully before going down that route.

That assessment might be a bit harsh - plenty of electric boats starting to be built and sold, and not sure that this one is any more whacky than many product launches.
Perhaps allowed here as at least it is about boating, and in relation to an article in the hosts magazine

 

[Mistroma]

That assessment might be a bit harsh - plenty of electric boats starting to be built and sold, and not sure that this one is any more whacky than many product launches.
Perhaps allowed here as at least it is about boating, and in relation to an article in the hosts magazine

Not saying it was wacky or there aren't products coming to market. Certainly not hinting it wasn't allowed as anyone is free to post whatever they like (as long as it isn't currently happening or involves Br***t ). I was pointing out that this forum doesn't appear to attract the ideal target audience. I usually spend 6-7 months on my boat and have sufficient solar power to meet my needs during the peak summer months in Greece. I don't have sufficient for power or air-con, not even anywhere close and I'm not in the market for the product being advertised. It would appear that few here plan extensive pottering for short distances in sheltered waters. I suspect OP has realised this and decided to concentrate on finding a more suitable audience. I should probably have written "how useless the product would be for many on this forum" rather than "to".

I might be wrong and there's a silent majority already considering fully electric boating for next season.

 

[Rwc13]

Well I am certainly the target market for this kind of boat. It could be potentially a great replacement for my current 10.5m two cabin sports cruiser berthed in Vilamoura that we use mostly for days out with family and friends and occasional over nighters. In fact I have been in touch with the OP to explore further. Perhaps I am the only one that uses a boat like this? But evidence in the Algarve would suggest otherwise. So perhaps I am the only one on this forum? But surely that would suggest a failure in the forum to attract or retain a diverse population of boaters….

 

[Bigplumbs]

OK, so you must be big brother and know everything about my life, what house I live in, what energy it consumes, what cars I drive, how often I fly etc etc. Since you have clearly done the maths, perhaps you might share it with us all?

You can be environmentally conscientious without glueing yourself to a road you know. Or perhaps you don’t, and all your socialist posturing is simply that…

22 post Are you mr eco warrior in disguise.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Well I am certainly the target market for this kind of boat. It could be potentially a great replacement for my current 10.5m two cabin sports cruiser berthed in Vilamoura that we use mostly for days out with family and friends and occasional over nighters. In fact I have been in touch with the OP to explore further. Perhaps I am the only one that uses a boat like this? But evidence in the Algarve would suggest otherwise. So perhaps I am the only one on this forum? But surely that would suggest a failure in the forum to attract or retain a diverse population of boaters….

A sports cruiser powered by batteries yup that will work

 

[Hurricane]

Actually the engine sizes / power of most cars, and associated battery sizes needed, are within the same order of magnitude for most modest sized cars cars and most modest sized boats. Clearly there are more challenges recharging mid journey if in open water - but in practice most boating is done harbour to harbour. Those like me, and some others on this forum, who spend 50% of nights at anchor or underway are quite exceptional in total boating terms.

In my case, your comments are absolute rubbish.
Firstly how far would this technology take a 67 foot cruising boat?
We don't go from marina to marina.
A typical cruise for us could be 250miles over a two week period.
With any battery technology I can't see how I could stay for a single overnight at anchor even if I didn't factor in the energy for propulsion.

 

[Bigplumbs]

OK, so you must be big brother and know everything about my life, what house I live in, what energy it consumes, what cars I drive, how often I fly etc etc. Since you have clearly done the maths, perhaps you might share it with us all?

You can be environmentally conscientious without glueing yourself to a road you know. Or perhaps you don’t, and all your socialist posturing is simply that…

Being environmentally aware might be a good thing but being aware of reality is far better So often the two don't go hand in hand . Hence the growth of those that block the M25 for fun.

 

[flaming]

In my case, your comments are absolute rubbish.
Firstly how far would this technology take a 67 foot cruising boat?
We don't go from marina to marina.
A typical cruise for us could be 250miles over a two week period.
With any battery technology I can't see how I could stay for a single overnight at anchor even if I didn't factor in the energy for propulsion.

So what's your vision for boating in a post fossil fuel world?

 

[Farmer Piles]

There are better ways more efficient ways to store energy than using electrolysis and hydrogen or using batteries.

For instance, with solar, instead of using photovoltaic panels to directly generate electricity, one way is to use low tech panels to heat molten salt. This can be reasonably efficiently stored without too much heat loss and the heat can then be used to generate steam for conventional steam turbine electricity generation.

Wind turbines can drive compressors to compress air which can be stored underground. This can be released as required to drive a turbine for electricity generation.

I quite agree, but if it is hydrogen that we are after to drive big kit then I was suggesting that as one way.

In Morocco for example they use thermal solar panels to superheat oil which then superheats a vast reservoir of sand. Come evening they pump the oil through the sand which is at 300C and use the hot oil to generate steam for turbines, this then generates enough electricity for the neighbouring city until around 11-12pm.

 

[vas]

So what's your vision for boating in a post fossil fuel world?

I guess the simple answer is we'll know once the vision for post fossil fuel world in transportation (shipping and flying mainly!) is revealed - or best developed.
I find mildly annoying everyone and their dog to try and "solve" the "massive" issue of personal transport and avoid addressing the big pollutants.

IMHO, fossil fuels seem to be here to stay for much longer than envisaged.

And to answer your Q, tecreational boating solutions are rather easy to visualise:

• sailing yachts
• el.motors
• lots of solar
• solar integrated on sails, altering layout so can track the sun and produce energy when no wind around (or at anchor)
• better storage of energy (as and when it develops)

As Mike, I leave home port for a week min and I DONT visit ports on my trips. Don't want to, don't have to, don't have any ports to visit tbh!

IMHO, the grave mistake is that tech must accommodate needs, not the other way round!

 

[flaming]

I guess the simple answer is we'll know once the vision for post fossil fuel world in transportation (shipping and flying mainly!) is revealed - or best developed.
I find mildly annoying everyone and their dog to try and "solve" the "massive" issue of personal transport and avoid addressing the big pollutants.

On that I completely agree.

IMHO, fossil fuels seem to be here to stay for much longer than envisaged.

And to answer your Q, tecreational boating solutions are rather easy to visualise:

• sailing yachts
• el.motors
• lots of solar
• solar integrated on sails, altering layout so can track the sun and produce energy when no wind around (or at anchor)
• better storage of energy (as and when it develops)

As Mike, I leave home port for a week min and I DONT visit ports on my trips. Don't want to, don't have to, don't have any ports to visit tbh!

IMHO, the grave mistake is that tech must accommodate needs, not the other way round!

To be honest I'm not sure how long Fossil fuels will really be available to the average person. The supply chain of petrol and diesel is long and complicated, requiring a lot of big sites, big ships, big tankers, dedicated retail points etc. As the demand drops when more and more current uses move away from fossil fuels, then it's hard to see the small remaining volumes being viable, certainly not at anything like the same price point. I can easily foresee a tipping point where it becomes very difficult to produce and distribute fuel in a cost effective manner. When that might be is a difficult thing to predict...

On the tech vs needs... This is an interesting point. If you'll forgive me for talking briefly about EVs... One of the arguments you hear most frequently about why people won't switch to EVs is that they "need to be able to drive 500 miles without stopping."
Whilst people who drive EVs, and do long journeys, tell you that it's more than possible to do that sort of journey in an EV, with minimal stops, and in most cases the overall time difference is small as almost nobody actually drives 500 miles without stopping to empty your bladder and drink a coffee. So what is perceived as a "need" is often not actually that, but a refusal to see how the new tech fits into someone's lifestyle, with both advantages and small adjustments.

With boats, the need as defined by owners of large motorboats in terms of desired range and speed are clearly not met by any foreseeable technology, but then that need is based on comparisons with current performance. If you dig further into the "need" of a recreational boat, then the ability to use it to enjoy the sea is at the core. That seems to be the need that is most important to meet, rather than the need for X range, or X speed. This might make recreational boating look a bit different in the decades to come, but hopefully it will still be quite possible to enjoy being on the water.

 

[vas]

To be honest I'm not sure how long Fossil fuels will really be available to the average person. The supply chain of petrol and diesel is long and complicated, requiring a lot of big sites, big ships, big tankers, dedicated retail points etc. As the demand drops when more and more current uses move away from fossil fuels, then it's hard to see the small remaining volumes being viable, certainly not at anything like the same price point. I can easily foresee a tipping point where it becomes very difficult to produce and distribute fuel in a cost effective manner. When that might be is a difficult thing to predict...

there are so many variables there, that we are all really just speculating (imho) For sure there's still a lot of fossil fuel on the globe to burn and kill ourselves slowly.

On the tech vs needs... This is an interesting point. If you'll forgive me for talking briefly about EVs... One of the arguments you hear most frequently about why people won't switch to EVs is that they "need to be able to drive 500 miles without stopping."
Whilst people who drive EVs, and do long journeys, tell you that it's more than possible to do that sort of journey in an EV, with minimal stops, and in most cases the overall time difference is small as almost nobody actually drives 500 miles without stopping to empty your bladder and drink a coffee. So what is perceived as a "need" is often not actually that, but a refusal to see how the new tech fits into someone's lifestyle, with both advantages and small adjustments.

shouldn't forgive you talking about EVs again , but even so. Shall I give you my car usage pattern as an example and tell me how it will be accommodated by an EV (leaving aside the fact that I most likely wont be able to afford it!)
I live in a 120k ppl city, using the car to go to the supermarket and things like that. Walk mostly to the office and to the boat (500-600metres away each) Visiting friends, or going for a swim, or a walk in 20-30km away. All that's fine and within the capabilities of an EV.
Now, I also need to drive to Athens once a fortnight, once a month, depends (alone, or with wife, or earlier with two kids now studying). That's 330km. I routinely do that with 150kph on the motorway (plus 20-30km city driving at low speed), at night leaving at 9pm arriving around midnight. Leaving aside the legality of driving 15-20% above speed limit and which is something I choose to do (and the main reason is that it's safer imho than doing 120kph midday with lots of idiots on the roads), this is something simple NOT achievable using an EV. You'd say, go slower, be legal or whatever. Fact is even doing 130-140 which is considered legal, I wont be able to make it in one go. I'm still at an age that can manage 3h solid driving (I know wont be able to for much longer) so what now?
Call me stupid, I hate service stations, whenever I have to stop (and I plan carefully NOT to have to), I'll just fill with gas and leave asap, never buy anything from their shops either.
Why do I have to do planned stops of 20mins (ok, not even viable right now down here, but assume will be at some point!)?
Leaving aside travelling by car to remote locations, camping, etc no way on an EV!
Don't tell me to use public transportation, best option is 5h using train or 4h on a bus. Just don't want to do it, btw, am I even allowed to want or not want to??? Seems that it's becoming illegal!
Seems to me that all this is turning into "you're unfriendly to the environment, you're not accommodating, you're inconsiderate, you're whatever" == in other words:
it's not the tech or whatever ruling fault, its your own fault.
That, I'm sorry I wont accept!
As long as there's another option that covers my needs, and I can afford it, I'll do it and sod the new imposed tech!

With boats, the need as defined by owners of large motorboats in terms of desired range and speed are clearly not met by any foreseeable technology, but then that need is based on comparisons with current performance. If you dig further into the "need" of a recreational boat, then the ability to use it to enjoy the sea is at the core. That seems to be the need that is most important to meet, rather than the need for X range, or X speed. This might make recreational boating look a bit different in the decades to come, but hopefully it will still be quite possible to enjoy being on the water.

don't get me wrong, my planning boat has only seen double digit speeds for around 1h out of the 500h the engines have clocked in the last 5yrs I'm using it. Problem (for me) is not speed, it's that system has to be self sustained and I'm reaching that point with some extra solar and lifepo4 bank of battery. But that's sustaining staying on board in a nice secluded anchorage without having to run the generator. That's it. NOT moving a 12ton 43ft boat about. That's for sails to do if you wish.

finally, you have to accept that boating is not marina hopping like it seems (from following this forum now for a decade) to be in the UK, or Med Sof/Spain villa owners do.

 

[BruceK]

boating is not marina hopping like it seems (from following this forum now for a decade) to be in the UK,

Oh I say. How rude. We dont do the Ghettoes. It's the hook or bust all the way. Of course what them southern boys do is a deviance amongst consenting parties but we ignore them and they ignore us, but us faithful in God's own country enjoy his splendour to the utmost.

 

[Rwc13]

A sports cruiser powered by batteries yup that will work

Yes it will as a day boat, which is how I use my boat……but you seem to have trouble reading

 

[Rwc13]

22 post Are you mr eco warrior in disguise.

3268 posts, are you the village idiot not in disguise?

 

[flaming]

Now, I also need to drive to Athens once a fortnight, once a month, depends (alone, or with wife, or earlier with two kids now studying). That's 330km. I routinely do that with 150kph on the motorway (plus 20-30km city driving at low speed), at night leaving at 9pm arriving around midnight. Leaving aside the legality of driving 15-20% above speed limit and which is something I choose to do (and the main reason is that it's safer imho than doing 120kph midday with lots of idiots on the roads), this is something simple NOT achievable using an EV. You'd say, go slower, be legal or whatever. Fact is even doing 130-140 which is considered legal, I wont be able to make it in one go. I'm still at an age that can manage 3h solid driving (I know wont be able to for much longer) so what now?

For the record my car will easily do 330k at circa 130, especially if it was warmish (as I imagine it often is in Athens). I'm getting about 270 miles, over 430k out of a full charge driving at UK motorway speeds in temperatures just above zero. And that's with the heating running, lights on, etc etc.. 150kph, probably not, but if you did have to stop it would be a 5 min max stop. And many cars are due to come to market in the next few years with more range than my Tesla. And the beauty of your trip timing is that you would arrive, plug it in and it would be ready for the return trip by the time you woke up. You wouldn't even need that 5 minute fueling stop....
I have done several drives of more than 3 hours in my car without having to stop to charge. Admittedly that's at 70 - 75 mph, but I wasn't close to running out of power either. Still over 30% on arrival.

Call me stupid, I hate service stations, whenever I have to stop (and I plan carefully NOT to have to), I'll just fill with gas and leave asap, never buy anything from their shops either.
Why do I have to do planned stops of 20mins (ok, not even viable right now down here, but assume will be at some point!)?

There is no particular reason that EV rapid charge points need to be in traditional service stations. In fact, quite a few UK ones are in hotel car parks, or farm shops where the coffee etc is pretty good, I had a very nice home made sausage roll at one a while ago. One of the advantages of electricity is that it doesn't need big underground tanks and pumps etc, and is already distributed all over the country. Thus you don't need to setup a forecourt with a shop etc and staff it 24/7, but can in fact add rapid EV charging relatively easily to a lot of locations that aren't too far from a sub station.

Leaving aside travelling by car to remote locations, camping, etc no way on an EV!

Actually, that's one of the real wins with an EV. You have a portable source of power and can run the heating all night, my car even has a special mode for that..... And even remote locations normally aren't normally all that far from a power source. No particular reason why there shouldn't be more chargers in more locations than there are petrol stations in the fullness of time, because installing them is a lot easier and they don't need staffing.

Don't tell me to use public transportation, best option is 5h using train or 4h on a bus. Just don't want to do it, btw, am I even allowed to want or not want to??? Seems that it's becoming illegal!
Seems to me that all this is turning into "you're unfriendly to the environment, you're not accommodating, you're inconsiderate, you're whatever" == in other words:
it's not the tech or whatever ruling fault, its your own fault.
That, I'm sorry I wont accept!
As long as there's another option that covers my needs, and I can afford it, I'll do it and sod the new imposed tech!

I fully agree on public transport, what a joke that can be. My point here is that actually I think the tech is more than good enough for your needs... But when you get right down to it, what you've said here is that the inconvenience of having to drive at 130kph instead of 150kph is simply too much for you to stomach. Which does seem a rather small hill to take a stand on to be honest...

don't get me wrong, my planning boat has only seen double digit speeds for around 1h out of the 500h the engines have clocked in the last 5yrs I'm using it. Problem (for me) is not speed, it's that system has to be self sustained and I'm reaching that point with some extra solar and lifepo4 bank of battery. But that's sustaining staying on board in a nice secluded anchorage without having to run the generator. That's it. NOT moving a 12ton 43ft boat about. That's for sails to do if you wish.

finally, you have to accept that boating is not marina hopping like it seems (from following this forum now for a decade) to be in the UK, or Med Sof/Spain villa owners do.

Oh I much agree that boating is not all marina hopping, and living off the hook for extended periods is a great thing to do. I basically agree that sails coupled with regen and solar is going to be, in the medium term at least, the most cost and usability effective way of doing the "off grid" style of boating.

 

[Bigplumbs]

A friend of mine bought a very expensive electric Jag. we met up for a meeting in winter where he had to drive 130 miles. He arrived freezing cold as he was scared to put the heater on for fear his battery would run out before he got the the meeting.

Simply put Electric Cars are no where near there Yet and electric boats are way off. I have seen the amount of batteries

3268 posts, are you the village idiot not in disguise?

Oh dear resorting to insults = You failed in the discussion

 

[Bigplumbs]

Yes it will as a day boat, which is how I use my boat……but you seem to have trouble reading

As I said that will work. Which bit did you read incorrectly