eberspacher mounting location???

[contessaman]

in the process of trying to buy either a D1lc or a newer d2. keep loosing out on ebay but I'll get one sooner or later.

in the meanwhile ive picked up some mounting equipment (stainless exhaust fitting, hoses ducting etc) and was going to effectivly get the plumbing done ready for when a heater materialises!

To my logic the best place to mount the heater would be in the engine bay which sits below the floor in the wheelhouse of my deck saloon sailboat. ducting to take the hot air would run to the wheelhouse, saloon and forward double cabin. any losses via this ducting would thus be within the boat so this heat would not be lost elsewhere. however, if I did this im probably looking at a 2.5 to 3 metre run of exhaust hose to the skin fitting on the transom. Will that work okay?

the alternative would be heater in cockpit locker next to transom with about 0.5 m exhaust run. but then miles of ducting taking the now less warm air under the cockpit through a cold bilge to the cabin.

wow my spelling is awful. note to self -need to concentrate more.

moreover, why does the combustion air intake for the eberspacher have to come from outside the living space as the manuals suggest?

my engine bay is well ventilated and the big perkins lump takes its combustion air from in there.
the taylors heater on my last boat drew its combustion air from the cabin and exhausted outside. This process allowed enhanced ventillation and meant a nice dry cabin. cant get my head around why an eberspacher couldnt do the same.

the warm heating air could be re-circulated to speed up heating and maximise efficincy. the action of drawing combustion air from within and ehausting outside would gradually ventilate the cabin - and in my case act as a bilge blower too....

help!!

 

[pcatterall]

I use and test D2s with 2m of exhaust and no inlet pipe. They are supposed to be balanced. I think that 2.5 to 3m is possible, you could always increase the bore of the pipe. You will need a silencer.
Combustion air from engine room should not be an issue, from your saloon would use up the available air so extra ventillation essential.
The DILC ( especially the compact model) seem to be more reliable than the D2s but may struggle to heat the areas you require when it is really cold ( 1.8KW ?)

 

[David2452]

The exhaust length whilst not ideal will be OK, but make sure you put in a condensate drain at the lowest point if you do use that length and make sure it’s well lagged, the back pressure of exhaust and hot air duct will almost certainly set the CO2 level out of kilter, especially on a used unit that will probably come out of a vehicle which has had a short exhaust and little if any duct so have an Ebo dealer check and adjust it when you have it installed. The main reason for taking in combustion air from outside is that it is colder and contains more oxygen for a better burn. Under NO circumstances take the air to be circulated from the area where the exhaust is sited, I hope it’s not necessary to explain why. The heating air is best drawn from the cockpit via trunking to assist ventilation but recirculation or a blend is OK, if you do draw from the cockpit you will need an external temp sensor mounted as the instructions inside the accommodation.

 

[contessaman]

thanks for that. think 1.8 kw okaythe boat isnt as big as it sounds only 30 foot on deck.

plan was recirc heating air to come from and go to the cabin via ducting ( not from engine bay) combustion air from engine bay ( no inlet tube at all) exhaust in cockpit via 2.5 to 3m tube.

the engine bay alreay has two lengths of ducting to it connected to louvres in the cockpit to supply the perkins with a good breath of air. the engine bay isnt airtight from the saloon though allthough the floorboards are a fairly good fit.

what d'you reckon?

thanks for heads up on adjustment to compensate for co2 levels

 

[David2452]

I assume you don't really mean exhaust in cockpit and that it will be on the transom topsides?

I would certainly recommend that yo do not have the air intake straight open, a short length of intake hose and an intake filter / silencer makes a vast diffnce to noise levels at minimum cost.

Apart from that it sounds fine, as for the output, without knowing the volumetrics / glass area it is not possible to make any meaningful comment.

 

[akyaka]

The basic controller links to a sensor in the return air of the unit so needs the air to recirculate from the saloon otherwise it just recognises cold air and never stops or slows down. Better to purchase a controller with an in built sensor and digital read out which overrides this and locate it in the saloon.Then the return air can come from the saloon or outside. We abandoned the return air from the saloon as the duct acted as a sound box and reverted to drawing air in from a locker adjacent to the engine space where the heater is located

 

[David2452]

reverted to drawing air in from a locker adjacent to the engine space where the heater is located

You should never do that, if anything happens to the integrity of the exhaust gas containment things could get nasty. In fact in a new install that would void the devices conformity certificate and I could never sign one off like that.

 

[akyaka]

You should never do that, if anything happens to the integrity of the exhaust gas containment things could get nasty.

Sorry do not understand . the unit pulls air directly via ducting from a locker which is isolated from the engine compartment and cannot see how the exhaust blowing,which is what i presume you mean,can contaminate the incoming air.

 

[David2452]

Sorry do not understand . the unit pulls air directly via ducting from a locker which is isolated from the engine compartment and cannot see how the exhaust blowing,which is what i presume you mean,can contaminate the incoming air.

Ah, I misunderstood, I thought you meant you were drawing the air in from the locker where the heater was mounted.

 

[contessaman]

I assume you don't really mean exhaust in cockpit and that it will be on the transom topsides?

I would certainly recommend that yo do not have the air intake straight open, a short length of intake hose and an intake filter / silencer makes a vast diffnce to noise levels at minimum cost.

Apart from that it sounds fine, as for the output, without knowing the volumetrics / glass area it is not possible to make any meaningful comment.

dave, yes you are quite right, I meant exhaust in the transom using the damned expensive skin fitting I have just bought!

which leads me to another point, there does not appear to be an asbestos (or equivalent) gasket with the stainless eberspacher transom fitting. Is that right? it just bolts onto the grp, perhaps bedded down in mastic?

its this one:

http://www.autoelectrics.gb.com/acatalog/Marine_Accessories.html

I assume that it wont get so hot as to damage grp?

ta!

 

[David2452]

That’s fine, there is an air gap between the exhaust and flange to reduce heat transfer, I’ve never seen one damage a hull yet, don’t forget to transfer the upward angle when you cut the hole, a long series drill in the arbour helps here, or you can do as I do and drill the pilot and then use an arbour with a 200mm length of tool steel rod in it instead of the usual drill bit, this keeps the hole saw centred really well. BTW, the silencer in that link is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

 

[johnphilip]

heater noise

One factor I have not seen mentioned here is the noise of the unit as heard in the cabin. Other factors determined that the unit was fitted near the transom on our boat but I am glad it was as the noise is more distant. Using well lagged duct reduces the heat loss as the heat is brought to where it is wanted. Less good was the siting of the fuel pump with its surprisingly loud ticking on top of the fuel tank just aft of the heads. This noise is very intrusive in the aft cabin, advise keeping this object as faraaway as poss.
Ours is a Webasto but I think the same applies to Eber.

 

[contessaman]

dave, guys,

this is a line drawing of my boat, hopefully my proposed idea for mounting the heater is self explanatory. as I mentioned above exhaust run here would be about 3 meters by the time I keep it clear of the fuel tank.

I welcome all constructive criticism and /or better ideas. the boat has 3 cabins: wheelhouse, saloon and fwd v berth. Due to the long deep keel there is plenty of room in the eingine bay which in it self is well vented to outside the boat with 4" ducting to allow the perkins to breathe.

there would be plenty of room to mount the heater in one of the cockpit lockers including the ones just behind the transom if necessary.

boat isnt as big as it looks 30 foot on deck. I believe either d1lc or a d2 will be enough because I was going to use those vents with shutters for the warm air so wouldnt particularly need to heat the whole boat at once. just the wheel house when under sail and just the lower cabins/sleeping quarters at night while sleeping.

I did origianly think a d4 and just have it running on low but have been advised that it may coke /soot up if I do that -better a hard working smaller one?

thanks in advance guys

 

[akyaka]

One factor I have not seen mentioned here is the noise of the unit as heard in the cabin.

er yes

We abandoned the return air from the saloon as the duct acted as a sound box and reverted to drawing air in from a locker adjacent to the engine space where the heater is located

 

[pvb]

One factor I have not seen mentioned here is the noise of the unit as heard in the cabin. Other factors determined that the unit was fitted near the transom on our boat but I am glad it was as the noise is more distant. Using well lagged duct reduces the heat loss as the heat is brought to where it is wanted. Less good was the siting of the fuel pump with its surprisingly loud ticking on top of the fuel tank just aft of the heads. This noise is very intrusive in the aft cabin, advise keeping this object as faraaway as poss.
Ours is a Webasto but I think the same applies to Eber.

Two points here, both relating to installation. Adding a process air silencer to the hot air ducting makes a huge difference to fan noise in the cabin. The fuel pump can be fitted in a sound-insulating mounting which will greatly reduce the ticking noise.

 

[David2452]

From the drawing that all looks fine, I would put a 22 to 24mm exhaust adaptor on and use 24mm tube with that length though and the condensate drain will be essential. As for the heater power then if it works OK for you then fine, as the boat looks a "cosy" one it should need a lot less than some. Your belief that smaller (provided adequate) is better is correct as avoiding cycling with all evaporation heaters is a good way to reduce service intervals.