Eber struggles to start - could this be the problem?

[AntarcticPilot]

I've changed the fuse holder to a blade fuse and unfortunately still no workey workey. The heater goes through its startup phase, with the pump ticking (I've checked to make sure fuel is going up the pipe) and the fan blows, but it never winds up, just spins at a low speed until the pump stops and it goes into shutdown mode(

I've had similar issues from time to time, especially after it has failed to start because of low volts, or shortage of diesel. In my case, the problem is that the diesel feed needs to be primed. This has to be done by manually cycling the diesel pump - I use a spare battery and jump leads to cycle the pump 20-30 times.

If anyone knows a better way of priming the diesel supply, I'd love to hear it - it's a pain in the neck having to empty a cockpit locker and fiddle around with cables at the bottom of the locker! I just do what the engineer we once got out to look at it did.

This is, at most, a once a season job, I hasten to say!

 

[Jabamusic]

I've had similar issues from time to time, especially after it has failed to start because of low volts, or shortage of diesel. In my case, the problem is that the diesel feed needs to be primed. This has to be done by manually cycling the diesel pump - I use a spare battery and jump leads to cycle the pump 20-30 times.

If anyone knows a better way of priming the diesel supply, I'd love to hear it - it's a pain in the neck having to empty a cockpit locker and fiddle around with cables at the bottom of the locker! I just do what the engineer we once got out to look at it did.

This is, at most, a once a season job, I hasten to say!

Rather than finding ways to prime the pump, would it not be easier to prevent the diesel running back in to the tank by fitting non-return valves etc. - Just a thought!

 

[David2452]

Rather than finding ways to prime the pump, would it not be easier to prevent the diesel running back in to the tank by fitting non-return valves etc. - Just a thought!

No need for non return valves, just a properly installed supply with 2mm bore tube and a dedicated standpipe with a long term 1/8" ball valve shut off.

 

[David2452]

If anyone knows a better way of priming the diesel supply, I'd love to hear

I use a pulse generator when I don't have the thermotest hooked up, then its simply hit the prime button and dial in the number of seconds, you can get a DIY one from ebay that will do both 12 & 24v, here. However, running the heater for half an hour a month even in summer as recommended by all manufacturers will mean you don't have to bleed the system.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-24V-FU...ervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item1c3146ccd4

 

[AntarcticPilot]

No need for non return valves, just a properly installed supply with 2mm bore tube and a dedicated standpipe with a long term 1/8" ball valve shut off.

I have a properly fittted supply, with dedicated stand-pipe and shut-off valve. Snag is I forget to use the valve!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I use a pulse generator when I don't have the thermotest hooked up, then its simply hit the prime button and dial in the number of seconds, you can get a DIY one from ebay that will do both 12 & 24v, here. However, running the heater for half an hour a month even in summer as recommended by all manufacturers will mean you don't have to bleed the system.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-24V-FU...ervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item1c3146ccd4

That looks like just what I would need. In fact I've had no problems this year so far, which means I'm probably OK for the season. Most of my problems happened after a series of problems with my fuel tank, which resulted in the fuel-lines getting empty.

 

[Cardo]

So having read one of the other Eberspacher threads I thought, "'ang on, I have a controller with a LCD display and the ability to display fault codes!"

Yeah, maybe I should've thought about this before

So, it appears the issue now is code 52 - Safety time exceeded - Check fuel supply.
Our fuel tank is pretty low, I'm guessing there's just not enough fuel getting to the machine. I'll fill up the tank and see if that helps at all.

The previous fault code was 11 - Under voltage - Check battery voltage.
Hopefully we won't see this one anymore!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

So having read one of the other Eberspacher threads I thought, "'ang on, I have a controller with a LCD display and the ability to display fault codes!"

Yeah, maybe I should've thought about this before

So, it appears the issue now is code 52 - Safety time exceeded - Check fuel supply.
Our fuel tank is pretty low, I'm guessing there's just not enough fuel getting to the machine. I'll fill up the tank and see if that helps at all.

The previous fault code was 11 - Under voltage - Check battery voltage.
Hopefully we won't see this one anymore!

You may well (depending on your installation) need to prime the diesel supply to get it started.

 

[Cardo]

You may well (depending on your installation) need to prime the diesel supply to get it started.

Not entirely sure how to prime it without getting extra equipment. The fuel supply comes from a second outlet on the CAV filter for the engine. The engine is currently working fine and there is nothing but fuel in the CAV filter. There is a see-through tube around 1m in length running diagonally from the filter to the pump.
I don't think we've had this particular problem with the Eber before, and I also haven't had the fuel tank as empty as this before, so I'm wondering whether the pump is struggling to suck enough fuel up the pipe?
When the pump is ticking, I can see fuel running up the pipe, though.
Could the filter in the pump be blocked? I haven't changed that, so the one in there could well be a number of years old.

 

[vyv_cox]

Surprised its working at all. Since we started turning on at least once a month in both winter and summer, in accordance with the instructions, we have had no problems at all in starting and running.

Not a lot of call for it in Greece in summer.

 

[David2452]

Not a lot of call for it in Greece in summer.

Agreed, but that is not the point, leaving the things stationary not only allows the fuel in the lines to go a bit iffy or run back but can lead to siezed air morors and the like.

 

[David2452]

The fuel supply comes from a second outlet on the CAV filter for the engine.

That could be part of the problem, it should be 2mm fuel tube all the way and a seperate standpipe, lazy installation.

 

[Cardo]

That could be part of the problem, it should be 2mm fuel tube all the way and a seperate standpipe, lazy installation.

Oh dear! Wasn't me, guv, the thing was like that when we bought it! Though, to be fair, up until now we haven't had any fuel related problems, it's always been voltage related.
I'll see how my next couple of ideas fair and if I'm getting nowhere I may have to contemplate changing the fuelling arrangements.

 

[VicMallows]

if I'm getting nowhere I may have to contemplate changing the fuelling arrangements.

My feed to the pump is T'd off the diesel feed immediately after the primary filter and I have never had any sort of fuel problem. I guess it all depends on the relative levels of fuel/pump/heater and pipe sizing. I still have a spare brand-new, 27 year old eber standpipe

 

[David2452]

My feed to the pump is T'd off the diesel feed immediately after the primary filter and I have never had any sort of fuel problem. I guess it all depends on the relative levels of fuel/pump/heater and pipe sizing. I still have a spare brand-new, 27 year old eber standpipe

Indeed, sometimes you will get away with it, sometimes not, sometimes it will be OK until compounded by another issue that may on its own not have caused a real problem. A by the book install gives the best possible chance of consistant reliability.

 

[Pinnacle]

So having read one of the other Eberspacher threads I thought, "'ang on, I have a controller with a LCD display and the ability to display fault codes!"

Yeah, maybe I should've thought about this before

So, it appears the issue now is code 52 - Safety time exceeded - Check fuel supply.
Our fuel tank is pretty low, I'm guessing there's just not enough fuel getting to the machine. I'll fill up the tank and see if that helps at all.

There is indeed a very small circular metal filter on the inlet side of the pump. When we had starting probs on our Ebersplutter this was eventually diagnosed as the culprit. Take it out - ours was covered in crud - it was amazing it had worked at all! If you are careful, you will be able to clean it and reuse it. I have now also fitted an additional in-line filter with a translucent body just before the pump, so I will get warning of an impending blockage ( if I remember to look! ).

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Basically, get a long pair of jump leads, take off the power connector, connect jump leads to battery, then (observing correct polarity) make and break power to the pump. Each make and break will cycle the pump, and that will eventually prime the supply; on mine it takes 20 or 30 cycles. The problem is that the Eberspacher controller gives up a bit too soon if there isn't a supply at the heater within a fairly short time.

After doing this, you may get a cloud of white smoke on starting if you've overdone it!

Not entirely sure how to prime it without getting extra equipment. The fuel supply comes from a second outlet on the CAV filter for the engine. The engine is currently working fine and there is nothing but fuel in the CAV filter. There is a see-through tube around 1m in length running diagonally from the filter to the pump.
I don't think we've had this particular problem with the Eber before, and I also haven't had the fuel tank as empty as this before, so I'm wondering whether the pump is struggling to suck enough fuel up the pipe?
When the pump is ticking, I can see fuel running up the pipe, though.
Could the filter in the pump be blocked? I haven't changed that, so the one in there could well be a number of years old.

 

[Pye_End]

Well worth doing, and was going to suggest when reading through the thread. Mine only took a small amount of gunk to reduce the flow sufficiently for it to not want to start. Also, when was the last time you changed the CAV filter? The pump filter blocking may be a sign that the CAV needs changing. On re-assembly it self primed.

 

[Cardo]

Right. I've replaced the fuel pump filter. The old one had a little crud in it but not that much. After a few attempts to start the pump has now managed to re-prime and there's fuel coming up the pipe.
However, the heater still won't start.

So, there's power, there's fuel, what next? Could the numerous false starts have buggered it?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Right. I've replaced the fuel pump filter. The old one had a little crud in it but not that much. After a few attempts to start the pump has now managed to re-prime and there's fuel coming up the pipe.
However, the heater still won't start.

So, there's power, there's fuel, what next? Could the numerous false starts have buggered it?

They often have a maximum number of retrys before shutting down until reset. Don't know how to do that; the engineer did it for us! I'd try completely removing power from the ECU, and seeing if that resets it.