Dyneema Gates ( lifeline , life line , guard rail )

[geem]

I

• We don't hang fenders on lifelines or use them for climbing. That's a good way to get leaks.
• The Dyneema sections are places where lifelines would be useful but were not included by the manufacturer. For example, on my F-24 I added Dyneema guard rails where the outboard tips up and extensions from the pulpit and sternrail (trimarans often don't have guardrails on the amas).
• You can attach Dyneema to stanchions with luggage tags and other tricks that would require welding with stainless lifelines.
• The life expediencies vary with both, but 20 years seems realistic with stainless and 10 years with Dyneema. Stainless corrodes in the sockets and is prone to kinking. Dyneema wears and is affected by UV, but going 1-2 sizes over buys a lot of allowance. We went oversize with Dyneema, because it is more comfortable to handle and still very light. None are less than 6 mm. On both boats, the main sections are stainless.
• Tension. World Sailing gives a figure for tension. More than that only increases the tension during a fall and bends the stanchions inwards. Slack is bad, but overly tight is also poor practice. If a gate reduces tension then the gate is very poorly adjusted; I don't understand the comment.
• Gates vs. no gates. Yes, a gate is a potential failure point. One the other hand, gates can also enhance safety. Recovering an MOBs through a gate is loads easier and there have been many, many nasty falls caused by tripping over a lifeline while boarding. I think the net advantage clearly goes to gates for most cruisers. Racers are free to feel differently. If any of the crew are very short, elderly, or disabled, no gates often mean no safe sailing.

I like stainless. It lasts. But there are places for Dyneema.

Not all stachions are inadequately constructed. We have a very heavy aluminium toerail bolted through the deck with M8 bolts every 100mm. The aluminium stanchion bases are bolted through the toerail with 3 bolts and they insert in the toerail such that they lock in place. The stanchions themselves are longer than standard and made of solid aluminium. They are far more robust than you see on a modern production boat. This allows us to put far more load on them with no ill effects.
Using 7x19 wire, it is not prone to kinking. Its designed to go around corners.
We chose not to have gates. We much prefer the ultimate strength of continues guardwires. They are our handhold when going forward at sea.
I don't see a good reason for having gates for recovery of a MOB. In 25 years on boat ownership, we have never needed to recover a MOB. There are far more difficult aspects of MOB recovery than worrying about having a gate.
If somebody can't climb over our guardwires then they really shouldn't be on our boat in the first place. It's not intended to be an old folks home

 

[thinwater]

I didn’t say loose, I said not tight. If my jack stays were as tight as my guard wires I wouldn’t be able to clip on to them. They’re also made of polyester so have considerably more stretch.
You don’t have to attach to cleats to run up the side decks, I have dedicated anchors at bow and stern.

Makes more sense. No slack to speak of, but not stretched bar tight. Since they are polyester, the math is considerably different. I'm assuming they are webbing, which means they stretch about 10x more than Amsteel (3% at 1000 pounds vs. 0.3% at 1000 pounds). A 30' jackstay might stretch as far as 12-24" in a hard fall, vs. 2-4" for Amsteel (with much greater force generated in the latter case). I've had both types, and there is a big difference in the catch.

 

[Refueler]

If I rig jackstays - rarely but when I do .. I make sure that they are inboard enough that length of safety tether is not such that person can fall outside the guardlines ... IMHO jackstays are to prevent person falling overboard ...
Especially important if single handed.

 

[lustyd]

I make sure that they are inboard enough that length of safety tether is not such that person can fall outside the guardlines

Mine are so far inboard they’re on the high side of the boat, regardless of tack I couldn’t reach the leward side guard wire on a 2m tether from the windward jack stay if I tried.

 

[thinwater]

... If somebody can't climb over our guardwires then they really shouldn't be on our boat in the first place. It's not intended to be an old folks home

One of the few things I am 100% certain of is that you will be old at some point in the future. Make sure you quit sailing. And never invite your parents, for example.

Just sayin'. I don't know the OP's situation.

 

[geem]

One of the few things I am 100% certain of is that you will be old at some point in the future. Make sure you quit sailing. And never invite your parents, for example.

Just sayin'. I don't know the OP's situation.

My parents are well beyond sailing.
I intend to sail well into my old age. Climbing over guarwires will not be the limiting factor.

 

[Refueler]

My parents are well beyond sailing.
I intend to sail well into my old age. Climbing over guarwires will not be the limiting factor.

There two things I will not stop till day I die - unless circumstances force me ...

1. Working
2. Boating

Both will be in one form or another ... seen too many people retire and not long after go to meet their maker .. as though systems just switched off.

 

[geem]

There two things I will not stop till day I die - unless circumstances force me ...

1. Working
2. Boating

Both will be in one form or another ... seen too many people retire and not long after go to meet their maker .. as though systems just switched off.

I look at it differently. I retired at 50. That was 10 years ago. We sail, kite surf, wing foil, hike mountains and run off road. Done over 40,000nm of sailing since I retired. I have had the best 10 years of my life since I stopped working and started enjoying myself full time
Keeping fit is essential in your old age if you want healthspan rather than lifespan. We see a large number of unfit sailors struggling with basics tasks

 

[Refueler]

I look at it differently. I retired at 50. That was 10 years ago. We sail, kite surf, wing foil, hike mountains and run off road. Done over 40,000nm of sailing since I retired. I have had the best 10 years of my life since I stopped working and started enjoying myself full time
Keeping fit is essential in your old age if you want healthspan rather than lifespan. We see a large number of unfit sailors struggling with basics tasks

I applaud you .. honest.

That's the trick - active. Its why I will not stop. I'm 68 ... backs killing me most days - but having snapped spine .. and before that had back trouble anyway - I take that as normal .. doesn't stop me being active.

 

[thinwater]

I last took my folks sailing when they were 90. They were reasonably fit but stepping over a rail would not have been safe. I know a number of active sailors that can't walk. My regular partner has developing arthritis and boarding is an issue. My wife has had a knee replacement. I have a very bad knee, and though rails and stairs are a challenge, decks aren't. Once on the boat --no serious limitations. Last time out we were in double digits a good bit of the time--nice breeze. It aint' an old folks home.

Until you are in these shoes, it seems, you will have no idea what you are talking about and no feeling for disabilities. Good luck with your future, perhaps you will be very lucky.

 

[geem]

I last took my folks sailing when they were 90. They were reasonably fit but stepping over a rail would not have been safe. I know a number of active sailors that can't walk. My regular partner has developing arthritis and boarding is an issue. My wife has had a knee replacement. I have a very bad knee, and though rails and stairs are a challenge, decks aren't. Once on the boat --no serious limitations. Last time out we were in double digits a good bit of the time--nice breeze. It aint' an old folks home.

Until you are in these shoes, it seems, you will have no idea what you are talking about and no feeling for disabilities. Good luck with your future, perhaps you will be very lucky.

My Mother is 81. She had a very enjoyable 2 weeks living on our boat in Antigua recently. She did several sailing trips and lived onboard with us.
Since we haven't been in a marina for 3 years, a gate in our guardwire would be a waste of time. A good friend of mine still sails his 57ft sloop with no electric winches. He is now 85. His wife slightly younger. They live at anchor and cruise the Caribbean.
Isn't 'active' and can't walk a slight contradiction? Your idea of sailing and mine are different. I don't want to sail on a boating lake. Active to me means long distance sailing. This is not something you can do easily if you can't walk. A gate in the guardwires really isn't going to make any difference

 

[Lightwave395]

How many miles have you done in your boat in those 3 years? If they have sat there like a piece of furniture, they won't wear. I have seen dyneema lines running through stanchion that are worn. These are on high mileage boats.

Spent a cumulative 5 to 6 months a year cruising the Atlantic coast of France, but of course I haven't done the miles an experienced sailor like your good self would cover