Dylan, you were right.

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nathanlee

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When I made the move from a 21ft Corribee, to a 32ft Nicholson, I was convinced I'd finally got the boat I wanted.
I have in a way. It's got bags of room, and a heads, and I can stand up when I'm cooking or, more rarely, washing up. However, weighing in at nearly 7tons, and not controllably going astern for love nor money, plus the 5' 6" draft which I'm petrified of grounding, means I'm quite honestly too nervous to take her out on my own. I'd take the corribee out no matter what the weather was going, and I never, ever had a problem mooring her, but I've successfully managed to mess up the job on a few occasions on the Nic, and in situations that should have been an absolute doddle. I've gone from a boat that I could jump on and sail off, to something which is... well, staying put for the foreseeable future.

To make matters worse, I had the rigger out on Friday. He's sorted the in mast furling, which now works a treat, but despite our combined best efforts, the verdict for the forestay furling gear is... well, grim. It needs to be replaced, and at a cost equivalent to what I paid for the entire Corribee back in 2008.

Still, on the bright side, I bit the bullet and got a little sailing dinghy which fits snugly on the foredeck. The centreboard and rudder stow nicely in the Nic's cockpit lockers, and the rig comfortable fits in the forepeak. I have, at least, had a jolly old time on that this weekend.

So there it is. Small boats are much better than big boats, if sailing is what you want to do.

Lesson learned, D.
 
You can sort of get the Nic going in reverse but you need to go ahead again to correct the direction. They do sort of steer backwards if you have some way on and drop it in neutral but they are good at making you look incompetent as it is a bit hit and miss. You can get them to do a few tricks with prop walk etc or putting out a bit of sail. Some owners fit a vetus bowthruster which helps a lot. The plastimo roller reefing is back in production:

http://www.seateach.com/Plastimo-Headsail-Reefing.htm


Mine works really well and these guys were the cheapest by far when I looked into it. I think you would need the 811 but might get by with the 809 as the Nic rig isn't huge.


We did accidentally ground once on mud and it settled into a hole for an uncomfortable night but didnt fall over. I wouldnt want to do it on sand or rock.
 
I've just been reading a book where the owner of a deep keeled traditional wooden boat had a neat trick in the event of a grounding. They rowed out the bower one side & the kedge the other, bot attached to masthead halliards. The boat (designed to rest on its keel anyway was stabel enough for them to walk around on deck even when the water had all gone. I guess it would work well in soft mud, but wouldn't want to trust it on hard sand.

But yes, Nathan the fun in a boat is inversely proportional to its size & cost.
 
Its all womens fault.Back in the 60s a 32 footer was a big boat something toaspire to.The rank and file had 22 footers and then 26 footers.Where did it all go wrong....women wanting showers and proper kitchens;that coupled with people having more credit boats grew bigger.I had a little engineless 27 footer then having met my now wife I ended up with a 40 foot schooner which was ok for living on but akward for a little sail round the bay and so much work.Now we are back to a little Vega that so far needs little work I am having to invent some!The downside is it doesnt go backwards which some may say is not important but in these days of marina berths going backwards ins everything.
 
mogy said:
Its all womens fault.Back in the 60s a 32 footer was a big boat something toaspire to.The rank and file had 22 footers and then 26 footers.Where did it all go wrong....women wanting showers and proper kitchens;that coupled with people having more credit boats grew bigger.I had a little engineless 27 footer then having met my now wife I ended up with a 40 foot schooner which was ok for living on but akward for a little sail round the bay and so much work.Now we are back to a little Vega that so far needs little work I am having to invent some!The downside is it doesnt go backwards which some may say is not important but in these days of marina berths going backwards ins everything.
Click to expand...

@Mogy,
your Vega *will* go backwards but only upwind in my experience. She will weathercock, bow will fall downwind.

On flat water and in light wind if you can get her over 3 knots in reverse you can yaw back and forth but if your courage fails... :-)

My Vega spends almost all of her time sailing or in forward gear...

John
Owner of Vega 1447
 
Vega1447 said:
@Mogy,
your Vega *will* go backwards but only upwind in my experience. She will weathercock, bow will fall downwind.

On flat water and in light wind if you can get her over 3 knots in reverse you can yaw back and forth but if your courage fails... :-)

My Vega spends almost all of her time sailing or in forward gear...

John
Owner of Vega 1447
Click to expand...

Having always had boats that had prop walk I was err momentarily terrified that having backed out of the berth there seemd to be no prop walk effect.Snce then I try to ensure we are pointed in tghe right direction before applying throttle!I to have discovered that we spend most of the time in forward!
 
Having had all sizes I generally found my biggest, a 44foot Moody was the easiest to moor. It was very predictable in it's motion, rarely impacted by wind or waves. Prop-walk was instantly cured by a Maxprop, to the extent I never even considered a bow-thruster. You just need to take the time to learn its ways.

Now my 20 footer with an outboard off the back is a real bugger as the slightest gust sends it sideways, you don't get propwash over the rudder to help turning and finding reverse whilst holding the tiller is hit and miss. The only advantage is that you can man handle if you have to.

I do like the lack of maintenance, hassle and worry which has to be amongst the biggest benefits of small boats.
 
at 22 feet katie L is as big as I want

I am currently in tetney Harbour at the mouth of the humber

the tide has just gone out so I am ready for an evening stroll as soon as the sand dries a little

I used to have a deep keeler

I was frightened of the shallow stuff

back up the Humber with the tide and will be spending a month or so at Winteringham which is the Lincolnshire part of the Humber Yawl Club

v happy with my boat

D
 
I have a small boat - 26ft.

I like it a lot better than my last boat, which was 22ft. I can stand up in it, have guests aboard, plan longer passages and to top it all I don't have to s*it in a bucket, yay! It is also much easier to park, having an inboard engine.

If I could afford the parking and maintenance then I would definitely get a bigger boat. I think it would be even more fun!

As to manoeuvrability of larger boats - I used to relocate charter boats for a living normally on my own. Usual French plastic fantastic between 40 and 50 ft. All were a doddle in a Marina, much more so than my Hurley 22. I also did a fair bit of sailing with a guy who used to single-hand his 50ft engineless steel ketch. He seemed to manage alright
 
obmij said:
I have a small boat - 26ft.

I like it a lot better than my last boat, which was 22ft. I can stand up in it, have guests aboard, plan longer passages and to top it all I don't have to s*it in a bucket, yay! It is also much easier to park, having an inboard engine.

If I could afford the parking and maintenance then I would definitely get a bigger boat. I think it would be even more fun!

As to manoeuvrability of larger boats - I used to relocate charter boats for a living normally on my own. Usual French plastic fantastic between 40 and 50 ft. All were a doddle in a Marina, much more so than my Hurley 22. I also did a fair bit of sailing with a guy who used to single-hand his 50ft engineless steel ketch. He seemed to manage alright
Click to expand...

A 50ft engineless steel ketch???

Is there a story there? Was it always engineless?
 
Small is beautiful but not necessarily betterful

"Small boats are much better than big boats, if sailing is what you want to do."

Much as I am a devotee of E F Schumacher ("Small is beautiful" ) I don't think I can agree with you there Nathan. I would say with absolute certainty that
small boats are definitely much smaller than much bigger boats . Beyond that, its all a bit too floppy to be prescriptive.
There is one golden rule however which bears mention - all boats shrink once they get you out to sea. Try it -if you don't believe me - get a tape measure out when manoeuvring in the marina - damn thing is not long enough to measure the bowsprit, sticky out anchor thingy , davits etc. At sea however one can stroll the decks and measure at leisure - boat is a midget out there!
There are size related costs and benefits and one can easily think of extremes. In between the extremes each to his or her own and preference may change over time.
I went from a wonderful, much loved Hurely 22 to a wonderful, much bigger loved Tradewind 35. Sailing is what I want to do - in particular sailing in directions other than backwards. Parking/unparking in tight spots makes up only a tiny fraction of my sea time so not fussed about that. For my sailing, the bigger boat works far better for me. I usually single hand her and she takes me much further, more comfortably and faster than the wee one - but I can also take the whole family and friends if I care to and she is great for living onboard and sailing at the same time - with the Hurley I would have had to tow a caravan which would have rather impeded pointing and light airs performance.
Much depends on what sort of sailing you want to do and if in any doubt of course have several boats of different sizes.
I think you will come to a better understanding with your Nic after she has snuggled you through a few gales and you have laughed at yourself for ever doubting her long keeled lovely betterness;).

Robin
Pleiades of Brdham
MXWQ5
 
My boats have gotten bigger as I got older... indeed I now have 86 feet of waterline..(think on it)

I have to confess that I have enjoyed the bigger boats more than the smaller ones..
Being ov six foot tall... standingmheadroom is difficult on a small boat... Though First officer neve has any problem there..
 
Bigging up the learning curve.

Just wait until you experience some of the real benefits of the bigger boat though, ( and I write as ex 21footer too)..
You go further on a tide, you can punch the tide , you can beat into wind over tide, motor for days into etc..

And three days on the hook in a blow is a larf with a library, space, water fer a shower , battery charging, company maybe, separate areas fer activities on board...
And you get a sailing dink too . Sounds pretty good just a new bit of the endless learning curve ..
Hope it all falls into place for you.
 
Vega1447 said:
A 50ft engineless steel ketch???

Is there a story there? Was it always engineless?
Click to expand...

Not much of a story I'm afraid. The owner had her built but couldn't afford to power her straight away. So he sailed her for 10 years engineless (if I am not mistaken)

When I sailed with him she had an engine, although most of his sailing was still singlehanded.. Fantastic boat - Galapagos 50.

Anyway - I'm sure the Nathan will get to know his new boat and will soon feel as comfortable with her as his last. I wouldn't have a clue how to drive a ferry, never mind a supertanker - but I see people do it every day.
 
My 34-footer will take 12 bottles of wine in the cabin table wheras my 29-footer would only carry eight and my 26-footer none. QED.
 
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