Dutch see Red

[Gwylan]

This does not seem to be in line with the response from HMG on the issue. This received from the Netherlands Embassy - my contact with UK politicos has generated a mixed and equivocal response.

Quote from an email from the Netherlands Embassy in London


Dear Mr Williams,

Thank you very much for your enquiry regarding the use of red diesel on pleasure crafts to the Netherlands. In the meantime we have received a number of emails about this matter and therefore I have contacted both Dutch Customs and HM Revenue & Customs.

I have received a letter from HM Revenue & Customs stating the following about red diesel:

QUOTE "On accession to the European Union, the UK policy of charging the reduced rate of duty for diesel used in pleasure craft was allowed to continue under derogation from the relevant EU Directives (initially the Oils Structure Directive (92/81/EEC), which was replaced by the Energy Products Directive (2003/96/EC)). The derogation was originally due to expire in 2001 but was extended for a period of five years.
The UK is one of five Member States with derogations, under the Energy Products Directive permitting the use of red diesel in private pleasure craft, the others being Ireland, Belgium, Finland and Malta. The derogations held by Member States under this Directive expired at 31 December 2006.

From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to use red diesel, i.e. the Netherland position has never changed. Obviously the owners sailing there from the UK are not aware of this anomaly and have now been found in breach of the legislation that has always existed in the Netherlands and to which they should have always complied." UNQUOTE

The Dutch Customs have received a copy of this letter.

I hope the above information is satisfactory. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Hoping to have been of assistance.

Yours sincerely,

Suzanne Bosman

Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
Economic Department
38 Hyde Park Gate
London SW7 5DP
Tel. +44 (0)207 590 3256
Fax +44 (0)207 581 3450
Website: www.netherlands-embassy.org.uk





-----Original Message-----
From: Rocyn Williams [mailto:rocyn.williams@porfalas.plus.com]
Sent: 01 June 2007 14:21
To: london@netherlands-embassy.org.uk
Subject: Contact



Name


Rocyn Williams

Email


rocyn.williams@porfalas.plus.com

Your message


Regarding Red Diesel in UK registered pleasure boats can you please provide a contact regarding a clear statement on the present situation. We were recently stopped by the Douane and fined for having red diesel in our tanks after arriving from the UK. The link to the Netherlands Customs Service you have provided in other responses does not appear to provide the level of information we need. Regards Rocyn Williams

 

[Bergman]

Re: EU

No

The Dutch, uniquely have decided to interpret a regulation in a particular way such that one can quite legally buy fuel in the UK and yet be fined for using that fuel when in Holland.

No other EU country has done this.

It seems that it is acceptable for Dutch yachts to fill up with diesel in the UK and return to Holland without any reaction from the Dutch customs.

The Dutch for example pay less tax on road diesel than the UK - should we prosecute every Dutch driver of a diesel vehicle that visits the UK.

The British government have no control over the actions of Dutch customs.

It is extremely tempting to start a list of dutch vessels that buy red diesel in the UK and post it periodically to the nice lady in the embassy and see what they do about it.

But I wouldn't want to take revenge on individual yachtsmen.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: EU

isn't all this a bit of a storm in a tea cup?

If you have a receipt for legally purchased red diesel in the UK, then you are covered......

This issue, and the Dutch action stems, I believe, from the long tradition of Dutch boats nipping 'next door' to Belgium for a top up of red, and hence the Dutch excise losing out.......

To miss out on the delights of cruising Holland over the simple act of stuffing a fuel reciept in a locker somewhere seems a bit short sighted to me......

 

[Alastairdent]

Re: EU

I do know of someone who was fined for having red diesel - even tho' they had a receipt.

The trouble was, they didn't declare the fuel and get the receipt dated at the first point of call. They cruised around for 2 weeks, and were then inspected. The inspectors said that they could easily have topped up the tanks with red during that two weeks.

Harsh, but actually common sense.

It seems that the way to handle this is to make sure you have a dated receipt, and declare it at first port of entry. Make sure you get a document 'receipting' your declaration.

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: EU

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a receipt for legally purchased red diesel in the UK, then you are covered......

[/ QUOTE ]

I would sincerely hope so but even I would be a bit twitchy about providing a receipt for diesel that I purchased in November last year because I was filling my tank before the winter lay up and was still using it the following August ~ it can happen!!
On reflection I think I would top the tank up just before going so I had a recent receipt.

Peter.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sounds like the cloggies have just launched an anti-tourism drive.

 

[Bergman]

Re: EU

And here we have yet another twist to the story.

No one has mentioned before a need to declare having fuel in your tank.

Where is this regulation?

Where does it say that you have to declare fuel.

The same applies to receipts It may or may not prevent the Customs from applying a fine. It appears that the rules or the interpretation changes almost hourly.

Apparently after 1/1/08 any trace of red having ever been used will be enough to be fined.

Clearly the rules are being made up on the spot, and this seems to me a clear breach of the Human Rights Charter Article 7.

 

[Gwylan]

Re: EU

No! The received wisdom at the moment from HM R&C [they are supposed to be on 'our' side] is that it is illegal to possess red diesel in Dutch waters. Had always been that way and they [Netherlands Customs] are just vigorously enforcing the law.

 

[Gwylan]

Re: EU

Nope, receipt might get you off the hook. But it is a matter for the individual Customs officer.

Also I gather that Belgium has stopped the practice - not at all clear how the commercial fleet and the pleasure fleet manage to fuel up in Marinas and Harbours.

Right now I'm out €770 and cannot get a consistent answer

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: EU

certainly in Oostende a couple of weeks ago, the harbour master was pointing people towards the local filling station and suggesting they use Jerry cans....

 

[Bergman]

Re: EU

Just received a reply to a letter to the EU Ombudsman coppied to my MEPs

I won't copy the whole thing since he would not be expecting that but

".....................It seems to me that the crack down on any trace of red diesel - which, as you point out, can linger in the fuel systems of vessels for many years
- is somewhat draconian and could well be found to be in contravention
of European law."

And

"................I will therefore write to the Commission drawing their attention to this and asking them to investigate."


That from Richard Corbett MEP
Labour Member of the European Parliament for Yorkshire & Humber

Let us see if anything develops, but good on Mr Corbett for at least taking the trouble.

 

[Gwylan]

Re: EU

Great - do please keep me posted on developments. I am rather committed to this programme. Currently to the tune of €770 and that gets my attention.

 

[sailorman]

Re: EU

its NOT ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
the Cloggies used to go to Belgium N fill up & keep the reciept, up to recient times

 

[Koeketiene]

Re: EU

Communication might also be a factor.
Have HM C&E actually informed their counterparts on the continent of the UK situation (red till 31/10/08)?

When I spoke to Belgian Douanes over Easter they were completely unaware of the UK situation.
Current Belgian policy is that red's no longer sold to yotties, but it's still legal to have it.

 

[sailorman]

Re: EU

gordie to the rescue /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, he wont let us down /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, will he /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[neale]

Re: EU

We were in Belgium in May and filled from a road tanker. We were offered a choice of red or white, but if we chose red we would have to sign a declaration that it would not be used for the engines. Obviously we chose white /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Koeketiene]

Re: EU

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously we chose white /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[neale]

Re: EU

Obviously, as otherwise we would be leaving ourself open to the sort of fine spoken about on some of the Dutch related threads. Maybe more as we would have made a false declaration.

To be fair, the white was only 69p per litre.

 

[fireball]

Re: EU

Crazy to say that you cannot use fuel already purchased legally for your engine - it is a bit like charging a battery in a country with different tax levels on electricity and then having to discharge and re-charge in the new country ... load of bolx! For such a liberal country they really do appear to be anal about this one!

 

[Emjaytoo]

Re: EU

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, as otherwise we would be leaving ourself open to the sort of fine spoken about on some of the Dutch related threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

But surely you still had red diesel residue in your tanks? Did you not fill up in Britain before departure?