Dutch see Red

[LadyInBed]

Further to Red Diesel in Netherlands post, I have just received this:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you very much for your enquiry regarding the use of red diesel on pleasure crafts to the Netherlands. In the meantime we have received a number of emails about this matter and therefore I have contacted both Dutch Customs and HM Revenue & Customs.

I have received a letter from HM Revenue & Customs stating the following about red diesel :

QUOTE "On accession to the European Union, the UK policy of charging the reduced rate of duty for diesel used in pleasure craft was allowed to continue under derogation from the relevant EU Directives (initially the Oils Structure Directive (92/81/EEC), which was replaced by the Energy Products Directive (2003/96/EC)). The derogation was originally due to expire in 2001 but was extended for a period of five years.
The UK is one of five Member States with derogations, under the Energy Products Directive permitting the use of red diesel in private pleasure craft, the others being Ireland, Belgium, Finland and Malta. The derogations held by Member States under this Directive expired at 31 December 2006.

From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to use red diesel, i.e. the Netherland position has never changed. Obviously the owners sailing there from the UK are not aware of this anomaly and have now been found in breach of the legislation that has always existed in the Netherlands and to which they should have always complied." UNQUOTE

The Dutch Customs have received a copy of this letter.

I hope the above information is satisfactory. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Hoping to have been of assistance.

Yours sincerely,

Suzanne Bosman

Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
Economic Department
38 Hyde Park Gate
London SW7 5DP
Tel. +44 (0)207 590 3256
Fax +44 (0)207 581 3450
Website: www.netherlands-embassy.org.uk


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[flaming]

If it's an EU thing then presumably the same applys to using red diesel in France?

 

[Emjaytoo]

It will be interesting to see what happens if PBO Campaign gets it's way and we have red diesel in pleasure boats that has had full tax paid on it. How will the Dutch or anyone else (British for example) know the difference between legally purchased red diesel with the tax paid and illegally aquired red diesel without the tax paid?

Meanwhile, we are slowly diluting our British red diesel with Dutch white diesel and keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[Aja]

[ QUOTE ]
Hoping to have been of assistance.

Yours sincerely,

Suzanne Bosman

Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
Economic Department
38 Hyde Park Gate
London SW7 5DP
Tel. +44 (0)207 590 3256
Fax +44 (0)207 581 3450
Website: www.netherlands-embassy.org.uk


[/ QUOTE ]

But surely with a Bosman you get a free transfer?

Donald

 

[Twister_Ken]

I suspect the Dutch interpretation is wrong.

From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to use red diesel.

The interpretation should be:
From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to purchase red diesel.

Think about all the commercial traffic entering Dutch waters - who knows where or at what price it bought fuel. However, when in Holland, it can only buy fuel at Dutch prices. It should be the same for leisure vessels.

 

[rudolph_hart]

Ooer, that seems pretty definite, then!

Think I'll postpone my Dutch cruise until next year, as I just can't be 'asked' to drain the tank, clean it, then re-fill with white diesel. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Mal113]

I keep my boat in The Netherlands and thinking of sailing to the UK and returning to The Netherlands this summer, so this would mean I could not fill my diesel tank in the UK for fear of having Dutch customs check my tanks on returning to The Netherlands. So what does one do if you really need diesel, hope the wind is in the right direction to blow you back to France? Row across the TSS system to ensure crossing at 90 degree’s.

No I think the Dutch have it wrong, they tend to interpreter rules the way they wish and are usually wrong. I understand from an article in the PBO that you should keep the receipt of any red diesel purchased for customs inspection. Further, as we all know once you have used red diesel the dye residue is in your tanks for a long time. Who do you contact for the correct answer to this problem? As every boat crossing from the UK to The Netherlands could be fined.

 

[StewartC]

Hi,

We've heard all about these problems, and have been in touch with the relevant authorities. We've been promised action by HMRC and the European Commission. Latest here.

 

[jwdorst]

[ QUOTE ]
No I think the Dutch have it wrong, they tend to interpreter rules the way they wish and are usually wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a well balanced observation about Dutch legal skills and culture in general. Or are we dealing with a cultural difference in sense of humor here?

Please also note that it the UK that has known for years now that the day would come that red diesel would not be allowed for use in recreational craft.

Btw, I believe the correct technical interpretation of the legislation involved is neither that red diesel is not allowed to be used, nor that it is not allowed to be purchased, but simply that it is not allowed to be sold for use in recreational craft.

 

[jimg]

Some one is doing something!

http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20070511160915mbmnews.html

 

[oilyrag]

[ QUOTE ]


What a well balanced observation about Dutch legal skills and culture in general. Or are we dealing with a cultural difference in sense of humor here?

Please also note that it the UK that has known for years now that the day would come that red diesel would not be allowed for use in recreational craft.

Btw, I believe the correct technical interpretation of the legislation involved is neither that red diesel is not allowed to be used, nor that it is not allowed to be purchased, but simply that it is not allowed to be sold for use in recreational craft.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
A Dutch Customs spokesman told MBM: "We will keep fining British boaters until we get the message from the British Government that it will remain ok to fill up with red diesel in the UK until November next year."

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Well - Ostend isn't as pretty, but at least the Belgian Customs are not anal tw@ts!

 

[wagenaar]

1. Since the dye in the red diesel is still noticable after having used white diesel for a number of times, who is going to conclude that the right type of diesel has been bought?
2. If the british gouvernment is at fault is it then correct to fine its citizens?
3. I find that the dutch are often more "Roman than the Pope" in the interpretation of EU-rules.

 

[sailorman]

The Pope is German /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Bergman]

" How will the Dutch or anyone else (British for example) know the difference between legally purchased red diesel with the tax paid and illegally aquired red diesel without the tax paid?"

Easy

They will assume the fuel is "illegal" unless you can prove TO THEIR SATISFACTION that it isn't!

 

[jwdorst]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Well - Ostend isn't as pretty, but at least the Belgian Customs are not anal tw@ts!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice.

 

[Gunfleet]

EU

So we can't go to Holland without the risk of arbitrary fine or prosecution.
Of course it also means Dutchmen don't come to Britain or Belgium for fear of a fine when they go home. Free movement? Free trade?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: EU

>Free movement? Free trade?<

No. Just dumb cloggies.

 

[MrCramp]

Thanks for the info. I will now make sure I never visit Holland and shall not buy any of their products if they take such a stupid attitude.

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: EU

[ QUOTE ]
>No. Just dumb cloggies.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? They're from Barnsley?

 

[Birdseye]

Re: EU

[ QUOTE ]
So we can't go to Holland without the risk of arbitrary fine or prosecution.
Of course it also means Dutchmen don't come to Britain or Belgium for fear of a fine when they go home. Free movement? Free trade?

[/ QUOTE ]

That general rule applies in every other country - when in Rome, do as .................

We can only blame the UK govt really. We had a derogation to allow us 5 years to adapt to the new tax rules and the disappearance of red diesel. The UK govt did sod all - Uk civil servants are characterised by complete incompetence IMHO. So we get to the end of the derogation and are now wondering why we have problems. You cant really blame the Dutch for being efficient and enforcing the rules, particularly when it looks as if the UK civil servants havent bothered to tell them that people here can still buy red diesel.

Dont blame the cloggies.

PS The cloggies apparently also enforce the anchor ball / light regs. So thats another shock for UK yotties accustomed to not bothering