Dump your Red Diesel before arriving in the Netherlands?

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]

By quitting the EU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then, by all means do.
I wish Britain would for once and for all make it's mind up - in all the way, or completely out. The present half hearted situation is not to anyone's benefit.

 

[LadyInBed]

Two replys so far:
1st passing the buck:

I have forwarded your email to Dr Jackson's Conservative colleague, Neil Parish MEP, who has primary responsibility for Somerset and who may be able to address your concerns.

Yours sincerely
Thomas Robertson
Assistant to Caroline Jackson MEP
=======================
2nd more positive:

Thank you for your email.
Looking through the links, there appear to be two different issues. The UK will from 1st November 2008, no longer be able to apply reduced rates of duty on red diesel, meaning that this will be taxed at the rate of normal diesel, significantly increasing its price, however it will still be legal to use for pleasure crafts. The UK did apply to the Commission to extend the derogation, but this bid failed. This came about because the UK alone had a derogation from the existing Directive, but the derogation was not relevant to the Dutch or to other member states and was only concerned with the rate of duty that had to be applied to red diesel.

With regards to the Dutch position on red diesel, the Dutch are within their rights within EU law to ban the use of red diesel if they wish and this is a seperate issue to the British derogation . I can see that many British pleasure craft users could fall foul of this law and so it does need to be highlighted. I am led to believe that if proof can be provided that the red diesel has been purchased outside of the Netherlands, then this law would not be broken, however I am not 100% sure that this is correct.

I would therefore be very interested in any reply you receive from Dutch customs on this matter. Also please feel free to send me more information as you receive it. We supported the British government's bid to extend the derogation of the duty of red diesel however from a European perspective, there appears little that I can do to help at this stage with regards to the Dutch ban.

Kind Regards,
Neil Parish MEP

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]

The UK did apply to the Commission to extend the derogation, but this bid failed. This came about because the UK alone had a derogation from the existing Directive, but the derogation was not relevant to the Dutch or to other member states and was only concerned with the rate of duty that had to be applied to red diesel.


[/ QUOTE ]

Getting the facts right does not seem to be a (Tory) priority.

Belgium & Malta also "enjoyed" a derogation.

 

[jaws]

This is the RYA possition.

http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/boatingabroad/rdabroad.htm

 

[LadyInBed]

Another brush off:

As Glyn Ford MEP is away at present, please contact Dutch customs and/or your local MP
Kind Regards
Cherry Burrow
Political Assistant to Glyn Ford MEP

 

[jaws]

Continued on the MBM forum

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1466838/an/0/page/0#1466838

 

[Seven Spades]

[ QUOTE ]
Another brush off:

As Glyn Ford MEP is away at present, please contact Dutch customs and/or your local MP
Kind Regards
Cherry Burrow
Political Assistant to Glyn Ford MEP

[/ QUOTE ]

That has to be the rudest reply I have ever seen from an elected Politician. I think it is so depressing how standards have fallen so low.

 

[Birdseye]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm,

I find it odd that you are asked to pay up but do not get any proof of the payment.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the root cause of the UK problem with vat on boats. Few people here keep receipts unless the expense is chargeable against a business. Why would a private citizen want to keep endless small receipts? In fact most of mus dont keep big ones, like for the purchase of a car. No official here in the UK would ever ask for them - most officials wouldnt have the right to do so anyway..

Or am I totally misunderstanding your comment?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

and indeed, many of us fill up at our home marinas, and just have the bill added to our account.... so a quick fill up prior to heading off to Holland wouldn't provide a receipt....

 

[Gwylan]

Here is another more confusing reply from the lovely lady at the Netherlands Embassy in the UK


Dear Mr Williams,

Thank you very much for your enquiry regarding the use of red diesel on pleasure crafts to the Netherlands. In the meantime we have received a number of emails about this matter and therefore I have contacted both Dutch Customs and HM Revenue & Customs.

I have received a letter from HM Revenue & Customs stating the following about red diesel:

QUOTE "On accession to the European Union, the UK policy of charging the reduced rate of duty for diesel used in pleasure craft was allowed to continue under derogation from the relevant EU Directives (initially the Oils Structure Directive (92/81/EEC), which was replaced by the Energy Products Directive (2003/96/EC)). The derogation was originally due to expire in 2001 but was extended for a period of five years.
The UK is one of five Member States with derogations, under the Energy Products Directive permitting the use of red diesel in private pleasure craft, the others being Ireland, Belgium, Finland and Malta. The derogations held by Member States under this Directive expired at 31 December 2006.

From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to use red diesel, i.e. the Netherland position has never changed. Obviously the owners sailing there from the UK are not aware of this anomaly and have now been found in breach of the legislation that has always existed in the Netherlands and to which they should have always complied." UNQUOTE

The Dutch Customs have received a copy of this letter.

I hope the above information is satisfactory. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Hoping to have been of assistance.

Yours sincerely,

Suzanne Bosman

Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
Economic Department
38 Hyde Park Gate
London SW7 5DP
Tel. +44 (0)207 590 3256
Fax +44 (0)207 581 3450
Website: www.netherlands-embassy.org.uk





-----Original Message-----
From: Rocyn Williams [mailto:rocyn.williams@porfalas.plus.com]
Sent: 01 June 2007 14:21
To: london@netherlands-embassy.org.uk
Subject: Contact



Name


Rocyn Williams

Email


rocyn.williams@porfalas.plus.com

Your message


Regarding Red Diesel in UK registered pleasure boats can you please provide a contact regarding a clear statement on the present situation. We were recently stopped by the Douane and fined for having red diesel in our tanks after arriving from the UK. The link to the Netherlands Customs Service you have provided in other responses does not appear to provide the level of information we need. Regards Rocyn Williams

 

[bendyone]

Why not just dye your tanks blue, that would confuse everyone, Available on ebay.

 

[Gwylan]

Did really think about that - but the amounts are so great that the smallest sample purchase would last me about 20 years
But I suppose I could have a business reselling smaller amounts and make an inflated profit.
javascript:void(0)
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[jamesjermain]

I have been in contact with the RYA again in view of the latest statement from the Dutch Embassy. The Cruising Manager has confirmed to me that the statement is just plain wrong and he has asked the person who wrote the letter to explain from where she got the information. It is at odds with what he has been told by Dutch Customs which is that red diesel is OK provided you have a recent receipt and an up to date log.

In the meantime it seems to me there can be only one piece of advice to give to yachtsmen planning a visit to The Netherlands - don't do it!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

what a shambles.....

We're planning on Holland again in '08.... hope they get it sorted before then, otherwise we'll go somewhere else instead....

I reckon that with my own fuel consumption it'll be at least 7 years before rhe red marker is not visible by eye, and even then, only if we run the tank right down, which we won't do..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Birdseye]

[ QUOTE ]

Consequently, in the meantime, people can acquire red diesel in
the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if
transported in the normal fuel storage tank.
I hope this is of assistance.
Neil N and I have discussed this at length and unless it can be shown that the Dutch or anyone else is misinterpreting the above then there is little we can represent at the moment. However I do agree that we should remind our members to carry receipts and to log engine hours to avoid this particular poo trap.

Kind Regards

Stuart Carruthers

The lack of a receipt seems to be the key thing, except that the Duch Embassy reaction seems to infer that receipt or not, Dutch Customs will be hurling books at innocent Brits

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont the Dutch have "innocent until proven guilty etc"? Surely it is up to them to prove that the red diesel in a British boats tanks was not purchased in the UK, not the other way round.

 

[Birdseye]

"From the above it can be seen that pleasure boats sailing in the Netherlands territorial waters were never allowed to use red diesel, i.e. the Netherland position has never changed. Obviously the owners sailing there from the UK are not aware of this anomaly and have now been found in breach of the legislation that has always existed in the Netherlands and to which they should have always complied."

Interesting to read comments from those wan*ers in HMC&E supporting the British citizens who pay their inflated salaries. And you can all remember HMC&E warning us of potential problems in the past, cant you?

Bit like the VAT issue where they have done another Pontius Pilate job.

 

[Bergman]

Yes good advice James

The situation is too unclear to risk the possible consequences

My proposed trip for next month has been cancelled, we'll head North instead.

At least the Scots don't rob us - and the kippers are good too.

 

[Seven Spades]

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting to read comments from those wan*ers in HMC&E supporting the British citizens who pay their inflated salaries. And you can all remember HMC&E warning us of potential problems in the past, cant you?

Bit like the VAT issue where they have done another Pontius Pilate job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that it is our HMC&E to whom she is referring.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think that it is our HMC&E to whom she is referring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suzanne is referring to our customs.
She replied to Jaws in this thread. and said the same to me.