West Coast
Well-Known Member
What's the panels views of the dufour 40? I have always like the looks of the current dufours, but never sailed one. What is the build quality like?
Dufour 40 - views?
- Thread starter West Coast
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
Which models and which years ? The Grand Large cruising versions are rather differnt from the more sporty range, and seemed to change a bit in recent years.
They invited us to visit the factory when we were nearby which was useful and interesting
They invited us to visit the factory when we were nearby which was useful and interesting
West Coast
Well-Known Member
Sorry, thinking of the performance range, which started early 2000s I think?
Yngmar
Well-Known Member
This type? They started 2003 I think.
There's one berthed across from me. That one had been extensively raced under prior ownership and is kitted out pretty well. I've spent some time looking at it and it's not a bad boat, if you like the 3 cabin layout with owners cabin in the bow.
The main sheet is at the boom end, which is nice, and the traveller in the cockpit, but in a relatively well thought out and less lethal position just forward of the binnacle. The wheel is ridiculously big, which is something that is apparently "performance" and makes it a bit more difficult to hop in and out of the helming position. On the upside, the primary winches and main sheet are near enough the wheel so you don't have to hop a lot. Looks suitable for single-handers I'd say.
Interior layout is reasonable, with galley and loo at the foot of the companionway where they belong and no silly additional toilets. Joinery has plenty of actual real timber as was common in this generation and looks to be well made. No idea about hull, I didn't peek under the floor boards, but assume it's the usual thin hull with stringers and strong keel matrix for the bolt-on keel found in most production boats. The tie rods from the shroud chainplates seem to confirm this..
I've helped the current owner troubleshoot a bit when he was springing out, put the gear lever forward and the gearbox did not engage (neutral button seized in) and the engine access is limited, but the saildrive access (tiny access panel in stbd aft cabin) is holy $%(*(@ what the @(#$%*( where they thinking!? I could stick one hand in there and with my not short arm jammed in to the shoulder could just about reach the gear lever on the sail drive, but no way I could do much in there with just one hand and the access panel was way too small to put another in. Strongly advise to pay someone else to do saildrive oil changes.
If you can live with that (or cut a bigger access panel), it looks like a solid boat, although I did not sail on it (the current owner had it 3 years and not raised a sail yet...).
There's one berthed across from me. That one had been extensively raced under prior ownership and is kitted out pretty well. I've spent some time looking at it and it's not a bad boat, if you like the 3 cabin layout with owners cabin in the bow.
The main sheet is at the boom end, which is nice, and the traveller in the cockpit, but in a relatively well thought out and less lethal position just forward of the binnacle. The wheel is ridiculously big, which is something that is apparently "performance" and makes it a bit more difficult to hop in and out of the helming position. On the upside, the primary winches and main sheet are near enough the wheel so you don't have to hop a lot. Looks suitable for single-handers I'd say.
Interior layout is reasonable, with galley and loo at the foot of the companionway where they belong and no silly additional toilets. Joinery has plenty of actual real timber as was common in this generation and looks to be well made. No idea about hull, I didn't peek under the floor boards, but assume it's the usual thin hull with stringers and strong keel matrix for the bolt-on keel found in most production boats. The tie rods from the shroud chainplates seem to confirm this..
I've helped the current owner troubleshoot a bit when he was springing out, put the gear lever forward and the gearbox did not engage (neutral button seized in) and the engine access is limited, but the saildrive access (tiny access panel in stbd aft cabin) is holy $%(*(@ what the @(#$%*( where they thinking!? I could stick one hand in there and with my not short arm jammed in to the shoulder could just about reach the gear lever on the sail drive, but no way I could do much in there with just one hand and the access panel was way too small to put another in. Strongly advise to pay someone else to do saildrive oil changes.
If you can live with that (or cut a bigger access panel), it looks like a solid boat, although I did not sail on it (the current owner had it 3 years and not raised a sail yet...).
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
We have an 385GL from new , for a non performances boat it goes very well even tho ours is over loaded as we live on it ,
more then offen we see 7kts and at times touching 8 kts avg speed over a long trip ( 40 NM plus ) if the wind are good is 6 kts at less .
There well build , has Yngmar said the two small compartments one on each side could had done with being bigger , but I not had any problems doing any work that need doing including change gearbox oil and engine filters ,
the big access under the steps give you assess to most of the engine .
These boats are well build , one of the down side was the selfs in the front berth which where a waste of space , our got converted into six cupboards . The front berth was also small to sleep on , with a large gap between the bed and the head we extended ours to make it a longer and wider bed .
The long rudder makes it a doddle to rev in any space and and very unlike to broach .
the D2 40 engine run on almost nothing , 1.5 / 1.8 LPH depend on how much Rev .
Every thing is done from inside the cockpit althou we did find the main sail didn't go up or down very well being full batton with the old partly sliders / cars so when we had a new sail made we had all cars and now it no effort to do up or down .
Water tanks are great with 400 lts it keep us going for nearly month and it you need to remore any of the water / fuel tank there easy to get out .
I sailed most of the over mod boat before buying the Dufour , most are just that bit lighter , but because we sail in all types of weather we wanted some thing that if we get caught out we wasn't going to have any issues , and the Dufour have proved it self time and time again .
In light wind it is slowly then ben/Jen for it sizes but not much and if you concider we over loaded they wouldn't been much in it if we was just a weekend boat , we normally can do half the wind speed .
We tend to reef down well before we have to but as far as speed goes if make no different if any any thing at times is goes that bit faster .
more then offen we see 7kts and at times touching 8 kts avg speed over a long trip ( 40 NM plus ) if the wind are good is 6 kts at less .
There well build , has Yngmar said the two small compartments one on each side could had done with being bigger , but I not had any problems doing any work that need doing including change gearbox oil and engine filters ,
the big access under the steps give you assess to most of the engine .
These boats are well build , one of the down side was the selfs in the front berth which where a waste of space , our got converted into six cupboards . The front berth was also small to sleep on , with a large gap between the bed and the head we extended ours to make it a longer and wider bed .
The long rudder makes it a doddle to rev in any space and and very unlike to broach .
the D2 40 engine run on almost nothing , 1.5 / 1.8 LPH depend on how much Rev .
Every thing is done from inside the cockpit althou we did find the main sail didn't go up or down very well being full batton with the old partly sliders / cars so when we had a new sail made we had all cars and now it no effort to do up or down .
Water tanks are great with 400 lts it keep us going for nearly month and it you need to remore any of the water / fuel tank there easy to get out .
I sailed most of the over mod boat before buying the Dufour , most are just that bit lighter , but because we sail in all types of weather we wanted some thing that if we get caught out we wasn't going to have any issues , and the Dufour have proved it self time and time again .
In light wind it is slowly then ben/Jen for it sizes but not much and if you concider we over loaded they wouldn't been much in it if we was just a weekend boat , we normally can do half the wind speed .
We tend to reef down well before we have to but as far as speed goes if make no different if any any thing at times is goes that bit faster .
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flaming
Well-Known Member
My Dad has had a Dufour 40 from new in 2005. I've done a lot of sailing in it, and come through some really snotty conditions with ease.
In my humble (and I'll admit possibly biased) opinion it is close to perfect for a long legged coastal fast cruiser, and even 10 years later I still think it's a seriously good looking boat. It's very quick, especially upwind, and a really very nice boat to helm. It's also very forgiving, and lets me get away with a whole bunch of things that the boat I race (an Elan) bites me for. A couple of years back we held the kite from Dartmouth to the Solent in a wind that got up to 25 knots true, and I never felt like I was going to broach, although I will admit that I decided to drive rather than trust the autohelm! (Also, I was having a whole bunch of fun) The same passage on the Elan would have been a much tenser affair.
The cockpit layout is superb for fast cruising, with the genoa winches, mainsheet and traveller all within easy reach of the helm, so you can tweak away to your heart's content without disturbing any reluctant sailors relaxing in the forward part of the cockpit, yet if they want to get involved there is conversely plenty of space for a main trimmer and a genoa trimmer to join the helm at the back of the boat.
Down below we have the 3 cabin, 2 heads layout, and as others have said it's a very sensible, non extreme, layout that works well. Personally I'd opt for the second heads, as the forecabin is still plenty big enough and it's certainly a nice luxury when you have 6 on board.
Build quality wise, it's no swan or HR, but in my humble opinion it's a touch ahead of the Beneteau / Jeanneau boats that I've sailed from the same era, and certainly all of the problems we have had over the years relate to aftermarket kit, rather than the build quality of the boat. And to be honest, I can't think of anything in 10 years that has kept us off the water.
The biggest plus point in the build "attitude" is the quality of the deck gear, it's all really good Harken stuff, and well up to the job. Unlike other boats I could mention I've never felt like the Winches were undersized for example. The only negative originally was the quality of the cordage, which was pretty cheap, so if you are keen on performance the halyards at least should get replaced with some Dynema.
Sadly Dad's boat is now for sale for health reasons. Otherwise there's no way we'd be letting it go.
In my humble (and I'll admit possibly biased) opinion it is close to perfect for a long legged coastal fast cruiser, and even 10 years later I still think it's a seriously good looking boat. It's very quick, especially upwind, and a really very nice boat to helm. It's also very forgiving, and lets me get away with a whole bunch of things that the boat I race (an Elan) bites me for. A couple of years back we held the kite from Dartmouth to the Solent in a wind that got up to 25 knots true, and I never felt like I was going to broach, although I will admit that I decided to drive rather than trust the autohelm! (Also, I was having a whole bunch of fun) The same passage on the Elan would have been a much tenser affair.
The cockpit layout is superb for fast cruising, with the genoa winches, mainsheet and traveller all within easy reach of the helm, so you can tweak away to your heart's content without disturbing any reluctant sailors relaxing in the forward part of the cockpit, yet if they want to get involved there is conversely plenty of space for a main trimmer and a genoa trimmer to join the helm at the back of the boat.
Down below we have the 3 cabin, 2 heads layout, and as others have said it's a very sensible, non extreme, layout that works well. Personally I'd opt for the second heads, as the forecabin is still plenty big enough and it's certainly a nice luxury when you have 6 on board.
Build quality wise, it's no swan or HR, but in my humble opinion it's a touch ahead of the Beneteau / Jeanneau boats that I've sailed from the same era, and certainly all of the problems we have had over the years relate to aftermarket kit, rather than the build quality of the boat. And to be honest, I can't think of anything in 10 years that has kept us off the water.
The biggest plus point in the build "attitude" is the quality of the deck gear, it's all really good Harken stuff, and well up to the job. Unlike other boats I could mention I've never felt like the Winches were undersized for example. The only negative originally was the quality of the cordage, which was pretty cheap, so if you are keen on performance the halyards at least should get replaced with some Dynema.
Sadly Dad's boat is now for sale for health reasons. Otherwise there's no way we'd be letting it go.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Yes, not sailed one but the Dufour 40 looks an interesting and attractive performance cruiser. Think they changed to a 40E a few years ago perhaps, similar but slightly differnt in detail. Attractive boat (though I thought the 2 cabin version we wanted was a bit compromised by the bulkheads being the same place as the three cabin).
The new team at the factory were very enthusiastic and committed to their product.
If looking at this type of boat, I would also search out the Wauquiez 40 - the rear cockpit version, which is a bit more expensive but even better implementation on a similar theme.
The Dufour Grand Large are a very differnt beast, in my opinion. Much smaller rigs, and in some cases what I consider very low ballast ratios. Nice enough as holiday caravans (which many/most people are happy enough with) but not in the performance cruiser category like the Dufour 40/E
The new team at the factory were very enthusiastic and committed to their product.
If looking at this type of boat, I would also search out the Wauquiez 40 - the rear cockpit version, which is a bit more expensive but even better implementation on a similar theme.
The Dufour Grand Large are a very differnt beast, in my opinion. Much smaller rigs, and in some cases what I consider very low ballast ratios. Nice enough as holiday caravans (which many/most people are happy enough with) but not in the performance cruiser category like the Dufour 40/E
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
How anyone who know any thing about boat can compair a performance boat with an cruiser is beyond me .
It's like comparing and rival with an AWB .
The GL was never made as an a performance boat more of an C/SP , but never the less it take on most boat of its size and bigger ,
we are well over loaded , are water line is now about 3 to 4 ins hight then what is was when we first left the UK , and just as I am writing this in 15kts of AP/W we sailing along quite nicely at 6.9 kts up to 7.4
As far as saying the GL are caravan , there no more or less an caravan then any boats in that class .
In 7 years we now sailed 18000 NM in alsorts of condition , twice in storm force where she just continue sailing reef down
, we live 9 months a year on the hook where we find she behaves a lot better then other same displacement boats .
I very suprise that someone who never sail a Dufour would run it down .
If you want to race buy a racing boat , if you want a fast and comfortable cruising you won't go far wrong then the Dufours GL .
dunedin
Well-Known Member
That is indeed my point. The OP asked about the Dufour 40, which in the current version the 40E is listed by the makers Dufour as part of their "Performance" range, very differnt from their Grand Large pure cruiser range.
And the Dufour 40 & 40E are credible offerings in this space, very much worth a look
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
We just anchored for the day , 29 miles , 4 hours 20 mins
Wind speeds lowers 12.5 kts , highest 30 kts .
Lowest speed , 5.6 highest 8.1
long period of time speed (SOG ) over 7 kts
At 23 kts wind speed around 7.3 to 7.6
At 11 kts wind speed 5.5
Not bad for a caravan , would you not say .
Point of sailing , a close reach .
stevepick
...
We bought a 2004 model and are in our 3rd season with her. Much as Flaming says, they are fast , competent cruisers. The deep rudder makes them difficult to broach, nicely balanced fractional rig . The design is by Felci, and they seem to get a very slick fast hull that doesn't slam a lot. I find it a joy to drive, very responsive and a real pleasure to sail from 3knts of breeze to 40knts (heaviest we have been out in her). Ours has the deep lead keel , but standard mast, and she seems to go fine with that config. I don't recognise the engine/saildrive access issues mentioned above , but they have revised the model over the years so maybe later models didn't have such good access?
Build quality is good, my only complaint is some of the door hinges are getting a little sloppy and door catches starting to fail. Aside from that its just been general maintenance. The hull construction is good, a fiberglass frame is bonded into the hull to give stiffness , instead of ribs, I know some view this as a concern, but we viewed 2 before buying, with surveys by 2 different surveyors, and both surveyors ave them a good write up. Its an issue if you have a bad grounding and then its difficult to see if/where the hull-frame bonding has separated/damaged, but a hard grounding in any boat is always an issue. She does feel very strong.
I see you are in Ardrossan, I have sailed that horrible choppy patch off Ardrossan numerous times in various Moodys, and a Jeanneau, it was never comfortable . The Dufour just shrugs it off.
Build quality is good, my only complaint is some of the door hinges are getting a little sloppy and door catches starting to fail. Aside from that its just been general maintenance. The hull construction is good, a fiberglass frame is bonded into the hull to give stiffness , instead of ribs, I know some view this as a concern, but we viewed 2 before buying, with surveys by 2 different surveyors, and both surveyors ave them a good write up. Its an issue if you have a bad grounding and then its difficult to see if/where the hull-frame bonding has separated/damaged, but a hard grounding in any boat is always an issue. She does feel very strong.
I see you are in Ardrossan, I have sailed that horrible choppy patch off Ardrossan numerous times in various Moodys, and a Jeanneau, it was never comfortable . The Dufour just shrugs it off.
West Coast
Well-Known Member
Thanks all, some very positive comments, even taking account of the biased opinion!
There is one for sale in Ardrossan just now which caught my eye, hence the question. I have always liked the lines of the 40 and 44 dufour performance boats, and was very close to buying a 34 back in 2003 when in the end I bought my starlight 35. Never regretted the starlight purchase, but just wondering about something a bit bigger for cruising with 5 on board. Problem is I measure possible boats against the starlight, and the ones I like are expensive! Such as the arcona range. The dufour seems to have a great combination of performance, looks and reasonable price.
There is one for sale in Ardrossan just now which caught my eye, hence the question. I have always liked the lines of the 40 and 44 dufour performance boats, and was very close to buying a 34 back in 2003 when in the end I bought my starlight 35. Never regretted the starlight purchase, but just wondering about something a bit bigger for cruising with 5 on board. Problem is I measure possible boats against the starlight, and the ones I like are expensive! Such as the arcona range. The dufour seems to have a great combination of performance, looks and reasonable price.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
We sailed a lot of of Dufours and Benneteaus when chartering two to three times a year for over 20 years, I would choose the Dufour to buy they are better upwind and better built.
Hambler Rambler
Well-Known Member
There must be a perfectly rational explanation for this?..... otherwise..... what the heck?
Quandary
Well-Known Member
I think your Starlight is a better boat than the Doofer, speed isn't everything, but if you wanted to try one by chartering, I think Isle of Skye yachts have one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest I level pegged a Starlight 35 in my bavaria 33 (in mast and standard jib) for 15 miles or so across Poole Bay to Hurst Castle in 8-12 knots of wind on the quarter. Plain sail. Was somewhat surprised as I thought he would be much faster - or pleased my boat went so well, depending on how you look at it.
jonic
Well-Known Member
Years ago (over a decade now -gulp! ) I used to be a Dufour agent and we were sent a new 40 to use as a demo boat. We took her out for the first time, and by the time we were over Chichester bar were grinning from ear to ear.
If you ever get a chance and are near one ashore, sight down the hull at the water line from mid-ships to bow. The line is so sweet.
The design brief was to have a high level of performance but also comfort for a family. I think they did a very, very good job. The 44 is also a fine boat and I know owners who have cruised both models far and wide and love them to bits.
We have Flaming's Dad's boat on the books and there are some nice new pics of her sailing in the Solent last week - http://www.jryachts.com/2016/08/dufour-40-for-sale-3.html
Looks lots of fun
If you ever get a chance and are near one ashore, sight down the hull at the water line from mid-ships to bow. The line is so sweet.
The design brief was to have a high level of performance but also comfort for a family. I think they did a very, very good job. The 44 is also a fine boat and I know owners who have cruised both models far and wide and love them to bits.
We have Flaming's Dad's boat on the books and there are some nice new pics of her sailing in the Solent last week - http://www.jryachts.com/2016/08/dufour-40-for-sale-3.html
Looks lots of fun
doris
Well-Known Member
I looked very closely at the Dufour 40 in 2005 but finished up getting a Dehler 39 instead. Haven't regretted the decision.
I felt the Dehler was better built, faster although not a real racer and the Dufour's very short settee on the stb side were the main reasons.
I felt the Dehler was better built, faster although not a real racer and the Dufour's very short settee on the stb side were the main reasons.
roblpm
Well-Known Member
Was there much change between the 40 and the 40e??
nortada
Well-Known Member
Sorry.
Coming to the debate late, I have only just seen this thread.
I have had a Dufour Classic 38 from new and have sailed upward of 20,000 virtually trouble free nms.
The boat has answered all we have ever asked of her and has proved particularly reassuring in dirty weather. She is also remarkably quick round the cans and vice-less to sail.
In the past I have been lucky enough to test sail much of the Dufour range and was particularly impressed with the 32, 38, 41 & 40.
Having read the previous posts I have little to add other than, where I to have my time again, I would plumb for a Dufour.
No I am not being paid for these observations. :encouragement:
Coming to the debate late, I have only just seen this thread.
I have had a Dufour Classic 38 from new and have sailed upward of 20,000 virtually trouble free nms.
The boat has answered all we have ever asked of her and has proved particularly reassuring in dirty weather. She is also remarkably quick round the cans and vice-less to sail.
In the past I have been lucky enough to test sail much of the Dufour range and was particularly impressed with the 32, 38, 41 & 40.
Having read the previous posts I have little to add other than, where I to have my time again, I would plumb for a Dufour.
No I am not being paid for these observations. :encouragement:
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