Drying out

[PhilipStapleton]

Has anyone practical experience of drying out against a harbour wall with a modern fin keeler (mine's a Bavaria 320). Can you move about onboard with impunity without the boat toppling forward or aft (given cleats/fairleads etc aren't designed to handle a vertical force)? Is there a risk of damaging the keel? Is it fun??

 

[vyv_cox]

My first boat was French, a Challenger Europe, with a very extreme, swept back fin keel. The previous owner kept her at Fleetwood where she dried on every tide. He rigged up a fitting on the bow to take a scaffolding pole to prevent the bow from dipping, but otherwise had no problems. We dried her a few times without the scaffolding pole, there was quite a vertical load on the bow roller at first, but once we were firmly leaning the friction against the wall reduced this.

I dried my GK29 many times, never had any problems at all. No risk about moving around on deck, the majority of the weight is in the keel and it takes a lot more than a human possesses to have any influence.

Not sure I'd describe it as fun, but it's an enjoyable challenge. We always move our 50 metres of chain to the sidedecks on the wall side and have the main halyard ready in case something goes wrong but never really needed it.

Current boat doesn't count for your purposes - it's the shallow fin. This is really easy to dry, previous owner used to go to Douglas every year for the TT and just left the boat to dry unattended every tide. We have dried many times against walls and lots more on legs.

A bit more reassurance - there used to be two Sigma 33s in Ramsey that dried on legs every tide. I knew a man whose boat dried on legs every tide on a fore-and-aft mooring with a fin keeler.

 

[Viking]

Yes it not a problem. Take reasonable safety measures regarding leaning, afew degrees only. Make sure your fenders are against the wall protecting your top sides. Maybe use a scaffold board in front of the fenders if the wall is uneven, or as posts (watch for metal rings etc.) Try to lay along side a ladder or take your own.
If you antifouling or just washing off remember, if you have a wetsuit you can wash of as the tide goes down, once the keel has grounded.
You can walk about, just take it easy. Remember if you fall overboard you won't make a big splash!
If you can, go and have a look at the quay when the tides out, to see what the keel will be laying on. For armed is forwarned.

 

[theduke]

most boats i've helped dry out tended to be bow heavy,so a simple bridle ie. a large bowline tied around and drawn back around the bow to the keel tied to the quay edging .its important to hold this loop back by lines aft towards the winches so as the loop does'nt work forward on the tide drop .a brest line of a loop around the mast will stop the boat falling outboard on the tides drop. all other lines are used as normal ie bow,stern,brest and springs . hope this helps.
best wishes, eric

 

[Mirelle]

Sell it and buy a real boat

then you won't have these problems.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Sell it and buy a real boat

and lose 18 months of sailing for a refit - how often?

 

[Mirelle]

Oh, all right, that was rotten of me!

The answer is roughly once every 30 years or so.

But the owners can keep doing that for 200 years.

The sight of the fin keeler, dried out alongside, which has nosedived due to an incautious expedition to the forecabin, is one which seldom fails to amuse....

You cannot have everything. You want a big cheap boat which you can steer backwards in a marina - get a fin keeler.

You want to dry out alongside or heave to in bad weather - get a proper boat.

 

[andy_wilson]

Re: Drying out (long version).

Damage the keel? Not a chance, I presume it is cast iron or lead so how are you going to damage that!

The floors around the keel are where the question mark usually hangs. Basically the twisting and lateral and pitching forces on a reasonably robust sail are far in excess of the gentle loading up of your boat settling on a pad.

I dry my Fulmar (32' with fin keel) regularly for a wipe over or in the case of last week in Brixham to chisel off the armour plating acquired after a 3 month lay-up on the Exe.

Generally you can move about with impunity. My 80 kg on the stem head wouldn't topple the 6 or so tonnes of cruising weight (though I suspect your BAV. is a little less than that), particularly given that over 100kg of diesel + tank lives right at the back under the cockpit floor, 220kg of water tankage just in front of that, then a cast iron engine, stern gear etc ALL behind the keel of another couple of tonnes.

Go the other end and we have had six sat in the cockpit on Lymington slip (no featherweights) all sat right above the aforementioned rear end ballast AND with drinks in hand. No sign of the rudder touching down.

Advice?

Give the harbourmaster your measurments and ask for advice but ALWAYS find the pad height at chart datum. If they don't know it you can work it out and tell them. If it is marginal ensure you won't be neaped at float off time by for instance a change of wind direction to offshore, an increasing pressure system, or simply a much lower next tide DOH!

Once alongside use the leadline to check your calculations. A further double check could be for instance to enter the berth at least 1 hour before HW to gain a safty margin of 1/12 tide height.

First time round dry out on a level concrete pad, NEVER on a grid unless the beams are very close together (not often) or you have marked where your keel is and marked where the beams are above the HW mark on the wall AND you are confident you will line up accurately with a beam at each end of your keel. Anyway beams look no use for me to be working around so I always avoid them. If there is no pad always inspect the shore for obstructions at the previous low water.

Set your fenders high (tops just above toe rail height) and concentrate about 4 good ones at the point of contact. Get a board off the Harbourmaster if the wall demands one, and use a pad between fenders and hull 'cos it can get a bit filthy if there is any surging when floating off.

Run long lines (nothing shorter than a boat length or 10 times you expected fall if there is room) and springs fore and aft, make off the lines landside so you can fiddle from the deck. The only breast rope you need is a loose bridle around the mast at about the same height as a bollard or post on land. Using your halyard means you have to keep adjusting it, and to forget that when the tide returns can be interesting I guess.

A good advanced technique is to hang a 'chum', some kind of weight, on the fore and aft lines to keep her snug against the wall if the breeze pipes up. I use a water carrier with about 5-10 litres on one, and a hank of thick rope on the other. In some drying berths fin keelers are left unattended for tide after tide using old water carriers to hold them in.

Get about 100kg of weight on the inside side deck. I flake out my anchor and chain, and lash the boom over that side. If you are nervous weight a halyard to prove it's hanging a 4-6 inches off centre and that's enough. Once she touches down the fenders will be squeezed to lean in a bit more.

First time, make sure you have a couple of long heavy warps ready, and a good idea what you will lash then to should you **** up. From front to rear stem-head fittings, samson post or centreline cleat, windlass, mast foot, primary winches etc. would each hold a boat in extremis, Combined would save (almost) any situation!

Is it fun?

Rarely does scrubbing, anti-fouling, changing anodes, changing skin fittings or polishing propellors constitute fun. However, being a practical type, who also enjoys stealing a winter sail if the conditions are right, I can advise that leaving the boat in the water is a good winter strategy. Since a refit in 1999/00 and a launch with 3 good coats of A/F we have never hauled out saving maybe £600 in yard bills each winter but instead costing about a tenner twice a year to dry for a scrub and top-up coat once a season.

Once confident you can of course consider visiting the places your contemporaries shy from, and sleep peacefully against the wall on the old quay at the top of the creek.

Now that is fun!

Final thought, a confession from a fellow Westerly owner, from his pre-Westerly days.

Having dried out, the tide seemed to be making early and our man thought he felt some movement under the keel. Already past midnight with wife sound asleep below, our man was eager to get back to his berth so, knowing that the slip sloped away from quay, he cast all off, started the engine and gave a hefty shove towards the deeper water. The keel stayed put and the his yacht assumed 15 degree list away from the wall.

He needen't have worried about starting the engine and not revving it, the thud and scream from below would have woken the dead!

 

[PhilipStapleton]

Re: Sell it and buy a real boat

Would that be cow-skin or papyrus?

 

[hillyarder]

Re:drying out in Ryde

Kids love it here. Will have to dry out this year as we have a hillyard 9 t with a long keel. Never done it before. does anyone have any experience of ryde. and while on the subject, anyone ever used beaching legs.

thanks

 

[vyv_cox]

Legs

See my previous posting. Have used legs (Yachtlegs) many, many times and never had a problem.

 

[pas]

you do appear to be disadvantaged? on my travels i have seen many of your fixed keel sisters looking odd against a wall, not a problem for me as i have a southerly.

RYDE, is a wonderful place with a good hard and level sand bottom against the wall,be careful near the entrance as there was a build up of sand there last year. Ideal for a quick scrubb, some good local pubs and good shopping center. Also good links on the bus if you want to go inland
Be cautious August bank holliday as there is a scooter rally, good fun but there are several thousand of them.

Dyring out against the wall, i have done this several times with fin keels (yes i usde to be disadvantaged too) Plenty of fenders, Main Haylard tied off on the dock to induce a heel and weight on the side against the wall usually help. Boat damage? depends on the design. Will she sit level fore and aft again depends on design. Dont forget when your boat is laid up for the winter all of its weight sits on the keel the props are usually there to stop it falling.