Dreadful after sales service

[Obi]

I wouldnt have hesitated in this instance to go via the small claims court, Ive already done it twice during the 90s, and it was called the small claims court then.
It cost about £35 to issue the summons.
I presented evidence which was clear and un-desputable.

The small claims court is there for precisely the kind of situation you have, and they tend to rule on the side of "fairness" in my experience providing your legal rights have been ignored. Which in this case I would say they clearly have. You will need to be able to present the evidence though.

PM me if you want to know more.

Unless there is a grey area here you are almost certain to get a speedy resolution with the summons.

Id have hit the barstewards as hard as I could after taking the micheal like that. It is not fair to put someone through what you went through.

Mark

 

[samwise]

Poor service and "Post-sales couldn't care less" are widespread across a whole range of products and services. Whether you are selling beds, Bavarias or bathrooms, the general approach is clearly to get the goods out of the door, get your money and count the profits. After sales service and fixing failures and glitches is a PIA and expensive for them. So, if they can get away with it and fob you off with false promises, they will. Always hoping that you will tire of the chase and do it yourself our get it fixed by somebody else.
Sales experts will tell you that good aftersales service will guarantee repeat business and is comparatively cheap PR in that -- even if the product goes wrong -- you will tell all your friends what a fine outfit Bloggs Marine is because they sorted your problems promptly and with a smile. This philosophy does not seem to have much currency with some of the people I still have to deal with.

Over my years of boat ownership I have build up a small coterie of suppliers,engineers and craftsmen that I trust to work on my boat. I count many of them as friends and in many cases I have discovered them following a bad experience with other organisations who were all "website and wonderful" but could not deliver the goods.

It would have been nice if the Great Recession had swept away all the bad guys , but sadly, it hasn't. Naming and shaming is one way to tackle the problem but this process is wide open to vindictive action for reasons other than bad service and also to pillory an organisation for a single slip up in a history of supplying good service. It may be the only way for us to get back without recourse to expensive legal process but we need to be very careful that we look at the whole picture and don't tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[ianat182]

Dreadful aftersales service

Two opportunities spring to mind with this aftersales problem and those are for PBO and other of the IPC publisher could do an article on post sales dealership cooperation and value.
As has been said it is not only the lesser priced yachts/mobos that are being found with basic faults on delivery and within the warranty periods, but the pricier ones,Oysters and Hallbergs.
A table that reads like a Glass's Guide for quality dealership cooperation, and including the OEM ,would be useful to prospective new boat purchasers and a good indicator of likely rogues in the second user market.

Perhaps if IPC cannot do this a letter ,suggesting an investigation by the "Which " survey magazine may be worthwhile. Their legal people would keep the investigations and the naming of bandits under control, and within proper terms of reference too.

Whichever publisher picked this up they would need factual and detailed input ;these forums would be a start,though the anonymity of posters to these forums would need to be kept, but contacted in PBO's case by PM. perhaps?


I hope your dealer wakes up to the seriousness of the feelings towards the marque and his area of aftersales dealings.

ianat182

 

[DownWest]

The problem with that idea is the backlash from advertisers. It needs a completely independant (Which) type of outfit. Who, BTW, did a piece on outboards some years ago. Seagulls scored low on almost all counts, but, " The owners would have no other" Sounds quaint now.Or..
A

 

[Seagreen]

Jeanneau...

Lets just say I'll never sail in one, let alone cross the channel in one again. It starts with poor design and goes downhill from there, IMHO. Its almost like Lada cars reincarnated as a yachtbuilder. They only seem to be made as floating caravans to be motored round the bay in a F3 or less.

However, sincere apologies if I've hurt anyone's feelings about their pride and joy, but that was my impression of them.

 

[lenseman]

Jeanneau...

Lets just say I'll never sail in one, let alone cross the channel in one again. It starts with poor design and goes downhill from there . . .

Oh dear, that's you of Full Circle's Christmas list then!

 

[FullCircle]

Jeanneau...

Lets just say I'll never sail in one, let alone cross the channel in one again. It starts with poor design and goes downhill from there, IMHO. Its almost like Lada cars reincarnated as a yachtbuilder. They only seem to be made as floating caravans to be motored round the bay in a F3 or less.

However, sincere apologies if I've hurt anyone's feelings about their pride and joy, but that was my impression of them.

You are obviously very impressionable then.
Of course, what you really need is a boat thats about 150 years old, that will be a perfect design, no?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Of course, what you really need is a boat thats about 150 years old, that will be a perfect design, no?

Oh yes.

 

[FullCircle]

Oh yes.

Oh no.

 

[Seagreen]

what you really need is a boat thats about 150 years old, that will be a perfect design, no?

At least my keel won't fall off..
(Which is what happened on the one I 'tested')
Varnishing can be a pain. Sails like a witch, turns like a bus in a corset, tho.

 

[pappaecho]

I hope that my reply is pragmatic. Firstly if the boat has problems which have not been rectified after complaint under warranty, then you should serve notice on the supplier informing them that you have given them adequate notice of the problems, and that unless they completely fulfil their obligations under the warranty, you will employ relevant professionals to make good the shortfalls, and sue in th court, adding that as you will have to employ several different trades there will be inevitably extra expense involved rather than employing to the supplying dealer, and that he cannot reasonably complain if the bill is much higher than if he had fixed it himself. That way you are covered in the small claims court, if he complains that the costs to rectify are in his opinion excessive.
Shame isnt it. If he had done the work quickly and efficiently, you would have been singing his praises and he would have done good business on the back of it. Instead many forumites will no doubt give new Jeaneaus a wide berth

 

[FullCircle]

At least my keel won't fall off..
(Which is what happened on the one I 'tested')
Varnishing can be a pain. Sails like a witch, turns like a bus in a corset, tho.

Keel fell off? Which model, when? I havent heard that on the Jeanneau owners net?

 

[DownWest]

Interesting bit is that Jeaneau don't seem to care. In the current climate, that might be a very bad idea.

Quote from somewhere:

Sell item: no defects, customer tells a couple of friends.
Sell item: some defects, correct them promptly, customer tells 10 friends.
Sell item: some defects, don't sort them, customer tells 20 friends (in this case, the world)

So fix things quick, is better than selling a fault free item?
A

Personally I fix them quick ( even if I think the customer is wrong) much easier than winding them up and resulting hassle. (within limits)

 

[sailorman]

If only Jeckells sprayhoods had taken that approach. The worst aftersales experience I have ever had

you & 3 customers/Berth Holders in Foxs

 

[Rivers & creeks]

If only Jeckells sprayhoods had taken that approach. The worst aftersales experience I have ever had

 

[prv]

I think you may be right about the cost of getting a lawyer, but assuming that I win, they will end up paying the legal costs.

I don't think that's correct on the Small Claims track. I think some minor kinds of costs can be awarded, but the system is set up with a bias towards self-representation rather than lawyers. If someone chooses to hire lawyers anyway then that's their lookout, and they generally won't have the cost refunded even if they win. The exception is if they are defending against a claim which is proven to be totally frivolous (not just weak).

This is from memory; if you have Usenet access then I recommend uk.legal.moderated - many experts on the subject there.

Pete

 

[Seagreen]

Keel fell off? Which model, when? I haven't heard that on the Jeanneau owners net?

From hazy memory I think it was a Sun Odyssey 32. To be precise, the Keel didn't actually fall off, so don't panic. Boat bumped a rock off Roscoff doing 2 knots in a flat calm, which cracked the hull just behind the hull/keel join. We thought for 10 minutes we would sink, but further investigation showed that it had happened before - a penciled arrow towards the crack in the hull showed that the company already knew about it and had chartered it to us anyway. Luckily we sailed it back to the charter company in Plymouth and walked away.

What really annoyed me was the design, as the structural 'floor' which supported the aft end of the keel was a lot shorter than the rest, as it interfered with the head door, and thus left a hard point on the hull, unsupported. All the stress of the impact had nowhere to go and thus bust the hull. Shocking state of affairs. That, and the flimsiest set of guard wires behind the helmsman. Lovely big wheel, though. Made me feel like Ellen MacArthur.

 

[Tintin]

I suggest the following - I have used this approach on numerous occasions with my work and it gets success, and it is surprisingly simple...


a) calculate what you think they owe you, include costs to repair items that they should under the warranty.

b) write to them detailing your claim, give them the option to agree to repair the listed items or to pay you within 28 days.

c) when they don't (and they probably won't - pond life so called dealers of any product never honour their claims pre-sale) issue a winding up order.

It is surprising how fast people react to these, compared to how they ignore county court stuff.

Check out

http://www.bytestart.co.uk/content/finance/43_2/winding-up-orders.shtml

regards
chris

 

[weaver_fish]

There's a thing...

Friend of mine had similar experince, ended up having a survey done by an independent as there were so many faults. If you pm me your email address I can send you a copy of a letter I wrote for him to the dealer which resulted in a flurry of activity.

Bizarre that I had less problems with my "new to me" 1971 boat than he did buying new.

 

[Burnham Bob]

interesting thread but i think there are two thoughts. one is **** service and the second is the quality of repairs and workmanship when things do get attended to.

i'm not related to french marine in any way but they are the only ones that come out well - excellent service and problem solving. they looked after me when i bought a yanmar off them - throroughly recommended.

fitting things wrongly, poor workmanship - seem to be all too common in boating and after all none of it's rocket science - hence the number of successful owner fixes referred to above