down wind

[giraffehappy]

please advise: are twin headsails necessary for circumnavigation? or desirable enough to invest four thousand quid...Present sail set up for Warrior 40 is yankee plus main with small staysail. To change to twin headsails will need new self furler with twin foils(2.2k) and new extra jib sail plus twin poles etc.

Some say twin headsails reduce rolling, some say it increases it.. Have even been told that poled out yankee and main with preventer is better, more stable, and faster rig than twin headsails, as more sail is up.

What is best for crew of 2??

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[Talbot]

The advantage of twin headsails when downwind is that :

You dont have the sail chafe
If wind gets up, it is very easy to reduce the twins (even taking one,and then rolling both together is possible)
On a half boat, downwind you suffer from pendulum effect, it can get so bad that the boom ends up in the water. The foresails are normally shapped so that this is not a problem.
The twin sails are a much better balance, and more forgiving of apparent wind changes. In some boats, you can achieve a balance with them that assists the windvane in keeping course.

Can you not get a new foil for your existing system rather than pay out that much?


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[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[ChrisE]

I'd say not necessary.

A boomed out headsail and main worked fine for us in 12000 miles about half of which were downwind. With roller furling headsail you have easy control as the wind pipes up and down. We found that this powered our boat at a reasonable speed, certainly NOT hull speed. We found that hull speed was not comfortable for long passages and slowed the boat to a knot of so less. Others we talked to did the same but others preferred to go fast at the expense of comfort and I'm sure that it depends alot upon your hull form as to what speed you find comfortable.

We did consider a double, we have a twin luff groove on the forestay but ruled it out because as a two handed crew we reckoned the faffing about with two poles and double sails on the furler outweighed any potential benefits.

As Talbot says the cut of the sail is crucial, you may have read that the Hiscocks used twin headsails which were high cut. Their boat managed a snappy 40 port to 40 starboard roll in two seconds.

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[AndrewB]

Not essential now, though it may have been in the days before efficient vane steering systems, able to hold a downwind course. My experience is the rolling is not noticeably less with twin headsails than a goose-winged genoa and mainsail on a preventer. However, beware the latter set-up in stronger winds (F6) as a breaking wave can precipitate a destructive broach that the vane can't correct.

 

[ChrisE]

I'd agree with Andrew's comments regarding higher winds and add that you can help the windvane out by towing something. We towed a turbine for electricy generation and this held the stern steady in bigger seas. Others recommend towing fenders or a small drogue.

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[snowleopard]

no clue from your profile where you are but if you are around s. england, pay a visit to seateach in emsworth who have a big stock of used sails and will let you try one if you're not sure about it. it's worth experimenting with a 2nd headsail set flying, ideally with a furler but not too difficult to handle without. perhaps a smaller one than your yankee so you can leave it up and furl the yankee when it blows.

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[jerryat]

Hi Fatipa!

Exactly! On our pond circuits we used precisely this set-up, though using our roller genny sheeted to the boom end one side, and the original (hanked) No2 jib set on a removable inner forestay rigged about 450mm aft of the roller and sheeted via the spi pole, on the other.

Reefing was simplicity itself, as we rigged a downhaul for the jib to avoid having to go forward, and rolled the genny as necessary.

The whole was chafe free, beautifully balanced, and reduced rolling to an absolute minimum. We had thought the difference in sail areas would create an imbalance, but (for some reason!) this didn't occur.

On a few occasions when the trades went very light, we used the spinnaker, although this did tend to increase the rolling despite using blocks well forward to minimise the swaying of the kite. I might have been the the slower boat speed allowed rolling to happen more easily though.

Finally, we were pleasantly surprised at the angles we could trim to without changing course, as the wind backed or veered.

Cheers

Jerry

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[giraffehappy]

Hi snowleopard,
yacht based in Plymouth. Re-rigging due to start mid-October, with mast coming off, so any extra halyards etc. could be rigged then. Thank you very much for the offer of trying out sails etc. Where is Emsworth?
Cheers Sophy

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[giraffehappy]

Thanx for all these really helpful ideas, it is a really important input into our ongoing decision making process. We are ramping up really quickly having only bought the boat in June, and wanting to cast off next spring, and being novice yacht owners,(last boat was a Wayfarer...) we are frequently perplexed. At blue water cruising rally in Southampton on Saturday it seemed like twin headsails was the only way to go, but I now think that we will try to cross the Atlantic without them.
Cheers Guys!
Sophy

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[Sea Devil]

I think you absoulty need twin headsails - its mainly down wind - however not sure why you need to spend so much money? You do need two spinnaker booms for sure.
The two down wind sails do not have to be matched or of the same quality - very often the trades are not that strong and if they are then just use one headsail boomed out.

My main genny is roller reefing - My 2nd genny hoists on the spinnaker halyard but I do not run it up the foil - I fix the tack close to the roller with a line and sweat it up on the halyard - the gap between the two sails is small enough and the important bit is the angle of poling out.

There are so many 2nd hand sails around it seems crazy to buy new as exact size matching is not that important. the wind is seldom directly over the stern so it is the pole angles that are most important... My system with the Hydrovane SS workes well in as little as 3 knots apparent - I reef with the rolling headsail as the wind gets up then drop the 2nd one and just use the roller head at whatever size seems prudent.
Just my opinion - lots of ways to skin a cat

regards

Michael

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time visit my web site
www.michaelbriant.com/sailing

 

[Ships_Cat]

Do you know if your boat has a tendency to roll or not?

We have a large overlapping genoa and in light or moderate conditions when running or close to it carry main and poled out genoa, sometimes setting a staysail on the inner forestay as well if light. We find that when the wind gets to where it becomes difficult if we were to accidently gybe then the genoa alone will easily give us hull speed, so then sail with that progressively rolling it as the wind strength increases. Somewhere up around 40-45 knots a staysail set on the inner forestay takes over.

We have carried full main and genoa from calm to over 40 knots (when caught by sudden wind change) when running and broad reach and have never experienced rythmic rolling induced by the rig.

If you have not already done so, some experimenting with your existing rig may save you the expense of changing.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[snowleopard]

seateach are at emsworth hampshire. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.seateach.com>http://www.seateach.com</A>

don't know of any secondhand sail people in plymouth area though i am based there myself now.

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