Does anyone still sail without a chart plotter?

[Never Grumble]

Throughout time in RN I went from paper only (including my time as a Navigator), through to people stating very strongly that paper navigation will never be replaced, to my final job at sea where there wasn't a paper chart to be seen other than as a briefing display. All planning and execution 100% electronic by the end. With continual advances in batteries and displays coupled with a new generation coming through I suspect that leisure boating will go the same way.

I navigated in the RN before any chart plotter type facility was used, although we did get GPS set to go to the Gulf. I am happy to use a mix of the two, or revert to paper charts when required, unfortunately I dont have the resource to equip my boat to the same extent as the RN, I have one dodgy old chart plotter that came with the boat, when you see the photos of an RN bridge nowadays there's a multitude of screens. Dont they carry a get me home folio?

 

[Laminar Flow]

The ferry “Queen Of The North” struck an island and sank in the coastal waters of British Columbia. Given the romantic circumstances on the bridge described by Laminar Flow, it would appear that even paper charts would not have saved them. This should be a link to the investigation report.https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/marine/2006/m06w0052/m06w0052.html#1.0

Yes, but they did, subsequently, install a voice recorder "black box" on the bridges of the company's other ships. The ships do carry paper charts as well.

 

[arc1]

I navigated in the RN before any chart plotter type facility was used, although we did get GPS set to go to the Gulf. I am happy to use a mix of the two, or revert to paper charts when required, unfortunately I dont have the resource to equip my boat to the same extent as the RN, I have one dodgy old chart plotter that came with the boat, when you see the photos of an RN bridge nowadays there's a multitude of screens. Dont they carry a get me home folio?

Back up system is another ECDIS on independent power supply. Both have emergency battery supply. Separate laptop as well if required. Screens large and teams used to planning, checking and briefing passages from them. Can also (and do) enter any method of fix so 3 point fixes plotted in coastal waters.

But on small yacht we can have plotter with mobile and tablet as back up systems. Still limitations with methods of navigation that can be input, screen size etc but think direction of travel is only 1 way. Would be interested in numbers to reverse of OP question: How many sail without paper charts (and not saying I am an advocate of it!)

 

[Never Grumble]

But on small yacht we can have plotter with mobile and tablet as back up systems. Still limitations with methods of navigation that can be input, screen size etc but think direction of travel is only 1 way. Would be interested in numbers to reverse of OP question: How many sail without paper charts (and not saying I am an advocate of it!)

I went onboard a T45 a few years ago but didn't really pay attention, if I ever do again I will show a bit more interest. Sailing with kids onboard I find it easier to point things out to them on the chart and the plotter screen is very small. I do have an iPad to give some redundancy.

 

[Graham376]

On that trip I learned that dolphins play around yachts at night, but are only visible in outline, a magical dolphin-shaped trail of bioluminescence. Thanks to my plotter-free perfect night vision.

A couple frightened me one night. We had been watching an aircraft carrier and warships playing games all day and were sailing parallel course to them at night. All of a sudden I spotted what appeared to be two torpedo trails heading directly towards us, arse twitching moment until two playful dolphins jumped out of the water.

 

[Laminar Flow]

To be clear, to me it is not a one or the other question. We use paper charts, we also use a tablet with Navionics and we have two independent GPS, three actually, if you count the stand alone one in the tablet as well.
As a skipper my duty is to the ship and it's crew and for that I'm quite happy to forgo any seamanly romanticism of pouring over the chart with dividers and parallels as my only means of navigating and to employ all I have available to ensure a safe passage and arrival.

That said, it does look pretty cool, standing at the chart table in the wheelhouse, running the dividers across the chart while mumbling arcane nautical sounding stuff into my beard; imparts a sense of confidence in the skippers abilities to a nautically less versed crew. Fools they, the lot of 'em.

 

[LadyInBed]

The irony is how much pleasure comes from knowing and using chartwork, unmissed and unknown by those who took the shortcut.

Ah! The romance of staring out to sea on a dark wet night looking for a buoy, seeing it and taking a bearing, then going below, plotting the line on a chart that is now soggy!
Sod that for a game of soldiers, been there, got the tee-shirt.
Give me a CP any day.
As a youth I loved the experience of changing down and throwing my mini-cooper into a corner. I now drive an automatic! ?

 

[dunedin]

She's a supercharged Watson 32 with more than twice the SA compared to the standard offering and a significantly improved steering and tail end. Fast, dunno? At 60 degr. in 8kts true: close enough to 6kts as to make no difference; at 35 degr. in 8 kts true, 4.8 kts (flattish water, commensurate with wind speed of course), Above 15kts: hull speed and more all the way, just not to weather, obviously, (ketch, garden shed an' all). Wheelhouse fully enclosed, roomy, heated, 6'4" headroom, best in class, IMHO.

So now we have Andersen 22, Island Packet and Watson 32 pilot house in the YBW super yacht category.
Sadly I can’t see myself swapping my modern fast cruiser for any of them just to improve the siting of my chart plotter (one at helm, one at chart table and iPad wirelessly linked).

Meanwhile back to the topic ..........

 

[Adios]

Ah! The romance of staring out to sea on a dark wet night looking for a buoy, seeing it and taking a bearing, then going below, plotting the line on a chart that is now soggy!
Sod that for a game of soldiers, been there, got the tee-shirt.
Give me a CP any day.

But I can't help thinking going there and getting the T shirt was worth it before getting a chart plotter. I doubt many do earn the T shirt these days unless they start on small and cheap boats which I'd think its the best way to start.

As a youth I loved the experience of changing down and throwing my mini-cooper into a corner. I now drive an automatic! ?

? I had a Mini 1275GT and now my automatic is a people carrier ?

 

[Greenheart]

Ah! The romance of staring out to sea on a dark wet night looking for a buoy, seeing it and taking a bearing, then going below, plotting the line on a chart that is now soggy!

Humour aside, I definitely said I can see that a plotter makes a fine stand-by for times of lousy visibility, and as somebody said earlier, there's no way under those circumstances, that the ablest paper & pencil navigator of old, would have refused the advantage that technology presents...

...the sad (and not very admirable or enviable) part of that advance, is that even in fair weather with time available and every opportunity to enjoy the involving satisfaction of establishing location by very old yet accurate principles, the plotter removes your brain from the loop.

It isn't very logical having sails either - you've got an engine. Sails cost money and require care in maintenance and a modicum of effort in use...but you'd probably tell a newcomer to boats that the mental and physical input (and the vessel's consequent movement in broadly the direction you choose) of sailing rather than motoring, generally rewards the effort involved.

I can respect the logic of skippers of motorboats who steer with a complete electronic setup before them, allowing the best data the tech can provide, to substitute for possibly flawed judgement and memory...

...but if for pleasure we travel in slow boats that must wait for tides and zigzag against the wind, why wouldn't we also relish calculating our progress, our position and best onward course, rather than just taking orders from a seagoing sat-nav?

 

[LadyInBed]

I definitely said I can see that a plotter makes a fine stand-by for times of lousy visibility

Yes you did, but it would have spoiled the humour to include it?

It isn't very logical having sails either - you've got an engine

Sails make perfect sense to me, I don't do day sails if I can help it. Fuel costs a fortune.

 

[Greenheart]

D'you sail to save money, or because you like sailing?

I mean, would you definitely have a motorboat instead, if fuel was dirt-cheap?

 

[Gary Fox]

D'you sail to save money, or because you like sailing?

I mean, would you definitely have a motorboat instead, if fuel was dirt-cheap?

'Sail to save money'

 

[Adios]

D'you sail to save money, or because you like sailing?

I mean, would you definitely have a motorboat instead, if fuel was dirt-cheap?

I'm not that bothered either way. I like that the noise and smell goes away when the engine is off and i like the steadying of the motion with a sail on a reach but on the other hand can't go under bridges, can't go straight to 90 degrees of the compass, need a deep keel, can't sail when the water is at its calmest. Half my boats have been motor and I just like being on the water particularly tidal places. If there was a silent electric propulsion powered by salt water that had infinite range, with a failure rate no more than masts falling off, on a boat with a pop up steadying sail I'd be happy with that. I'll get on the blower with Elon

 

[Greenheart]

'Sail to save money'

Hmm, I doubted the logic, but was trying to rationalise the combined readiness to hoist and trim sails purely to save fuel, with the equal readiness to minimise the effort expended on passage-planning by delegating everything to silicon-chippery.

Thank God none of us is under the smallest obligation to sail as anyone else does! (ColRegs excepted).

 

[LadyInBed]

D'you sail to save money, or because you like sailing?

I mean, would you definitely have a motorboat instead, if fuel was dirt-cheap?

The peace and tranquility when sailing is why I do it. I have no time restraints, so plodding along at 2 or 3 knots, even if the passage is then going to take 18 hours isn't a problem.

 

[Greenheart]

Can't be many better reasons than that.

Regarding plotters under sail rather than on motorboats, I meant that the nice, self-congratulatory feeling we get on arriving under sail, rather than with auxiliary assistance, is also available if we have used eyes, knowledge, charts and hand-bearing compass to calculate our passage, rather than relying on positions from satellites, and instructions issued by computers, delivered via autohelm.

If I go to the Isle of Wight in my own boat, every part of getting there is a small challenge, or sometimes a significant one. Arriving is a proportionately pleasing achievement. If I just want to get there, I buy a ferry ticket, and our arrival is for the captain to be proud of.

Each to his own...when I have a boat with a wheelhouse, I'll hardly ever bother beating to windward unless the tide is helping.

 

[Birdseye]

yes a pal of mine does - uses his android phone instead

 

[RupertW]

With not a lot of practice, contour following using a chart and the echo sounder is straight forward. You can often work up a position too. Without gps. It's a neat thing to be able to do. ?

Even with GPS and especially when tacking or making your way round a curved coastline I will often say, “Follow the 30m line and we are safe” or whatever keeps us away from obstacles with a little margin of error.

 

[westernman]

Even with GPS and especially when tacking or making your way round a curved coastline I will often say, “Follow the 30m line and we are safe” or whatever keeps us away from obstacles with a little margin of error.

There are areas where that does not work - such as the Costa Brava, where the depth goes vertically down to more than 50m just a few metres away from the cliff!

As soon as you see an echo on the depth sounder you are screwed!