Documentation - how pedantic should one be?

[CharlesM]

Hello All

Due to my budget limits and size requirements I am limited to fairly old boats. Most of the boats I have spotted are ferro-cement (please - no debate on FC) and are at least 20 years old.

I wish to limit my selection to professionally built boats, and of course need RCD and pref VAT issues to be sorted. My problem is I have found a number of boats that seem likely (in fact one boat me and my love feel would be perfect) but the documentation is sadly lacking. In one case the documentation stretches back to '90 but the boat is apparantly proffesionally built '80. It seems to me that many older boats dont have their builders documentation anymore.

How much documentation should I insist upon? How much documentation is absolutely essential and what can be done without.

I would really appreciate some guidance here as I do not wish to turn down a boat unnecesarily.

Thanks for any help.

Charles

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[Talbot]

I certainly dont have the original documentation for my boat, but it is Part 1 registered, and I have a VAT certificate, so I feel pretty confident about the data.

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[MIKE_MCKIE]

I found a very good reference was the RYA "Buying a Secondhand Yacht". Unless you are going foreign, you do not really need anything, unless you are registering in Part 1.
Main requirement for foreign is a VAT cert, & if memory serves, a boat built in the 70s & 80s is exempt anyway. What the book said was that if you have a berthing receipt or anything like that, from that sort of era, in UK, then it serves as proof that it was in existence & in UK before the VAT stuff became compulsory.
Anyway, get the book & all will be revealed.
Best of luck getting a boat, it was the best thing I ever did.
Brgds
Mike

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[AndrewB]

You really want documentary proof that VAT has been paid, or that the boat is VAT exempt (essentially, built before 1985 in the EU). On an old looking boat it is unlikely you'll be hauled up by Customs, but it's always just possible. But when you come to sell, potential buyers will be put off just as you are now. If proof can't be produced, then I would insist on a price cut ... some might say of 17½%.

Any evidence such as a moorings receipt dated prior to 1998 will establish the yacht as RCD exempt.

Otherwise the documentation only needs to be sufficient to convince you that the yacht really is the property of the 'seller'. (If this a brokered sale the broker may offer a guarantee on this point). Do insist on a bill of sale yourself when you buy.

 

[rjp]

Been there myself. To add to what has already been said:

There is also relevant information on HM Customs web site re. the VAT angle. At one time I believe it was possible to persuade HM Customs to issue you with a certificate saying that an older boat was exempt, but they won't do this anymore. (This for anyone venturing to the rest of the EC). They now advise a UK bill of sale be carried to show that the boat's VAT status is a matter for the UK authorities, which should keep European officials off your back. Haven't put this to the test though - anyone else found to the contrary?

You can get a blank Bill of Sale from the RYA or the Small Ships Registry will send you one (though it's not essential to have one to be entered onto the SSR)

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[robbieg]

To my mind lack of documentation when buying a boat is just one of the risks to factor in in deciding whether its the right boat for you. I spent a lot of time last year looking for a boat & was pretty shocked at the state of most boat documentation whether it was coming direct from a private vendor or via a broker. Considering the value of the vessels the state of the previous "conveyancing" on many of these vessels seemed pretty dire. Certainly I concluded that if I ruled out every boat that suited me because of less than perfect docs. I would be a long time getting a boat!

In practical terms the two principal risks are that the guy doesn't owns the boat and/or VAT hasn't been paid (or you can't prove its been paid). As regards the former as long as the deal feels right and there is some proof of ownership I'd be temped to go with it if I liked the boat. On the VAT point much is made of this but I've yet to hear of anyone whose had real problems on this issue with an older boat-I'd be interested to hear from anyone whose boats been impounded or had to pay VAT again as a result of inadequate documentation. On the couple of times its happened to me the authorities haven't asked to see any VAT docs-been satisfied with a bill of sale.

In reality I suspect the bigger risks with buying a used vessel are that the engine will fail/mast come down etc than that you will have police or VAT man turning up to say the vessel was stolen/VAT unpaid!







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[Geordie]

Yachts built before 1985 and have proof that it was in UK waters on 31 December 1992 are deemed to be Vat paid. See Customs website for more info.
www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/ukyachts/htm

In practice, Customs don't seem to be too bothered unless something brings the yacht to their attention. However, if you can't get the above proof then you will always be on tenterhooks and, as has already been pointed out, when you come to sell you may have difficulties

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