Do you ever display a motoring cone?

As somebody who never motorsails with Genoa unfurled, can somebody explain how a cone would be seen from the lee side with a 140% Genoa set? Angle of visibility probably only 120 degrees out of 360 I would expect.

PS Comparing speed and angle of heel generally shows whether a boat is sailing or motoring
 
john_morris_uk said:
What's with the slightly silly inverted snobbery of not hoisting the correct day shapes, which appears to be top trumped by 'I don't even own the correct shapes'.

Once upon a time, yachtsmen and women were proud to try and act in a seamanlike way.

And yes, we normally put the correct day shapes up, (although occasionally I can get lazy about it on very short passages.) And showing the correct shapes includes when we were sailing in the Clyde, so those in those waters weren't looking and watching very carefully as we weren't the only vessel complying with IRPCS.
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But you have to accept you're in the minority. My observation is most sailors are very seaman like but very few hoist the cone, I've noted this before and said they had become pointless (you highlighted my geometric illeteracy in that comment,)
 
john_morris_uk said:
What's with the slightly silly inverted snobbery of not hoisting the correct day shapes, which appears to be top trumped by 'I don't even own the correct shapes'.

Once upon a time, yachtsmen and women were proud to try and act in a seamanlike way.

And yes, we normally put the correct day shapes up, (although occasionally I can get lazy about it on very short passages.) And showing the correct shapes includes when we were sailing in the Clyde, so those in those waters weren't looking and watching very carefully as we weren't the only vessel complying with IRPCS.
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+1
 
We rarely motor sail other than for the last 20 mins of a journey while we are packing the boat up. By the time I have rigged a cone sensibly I'd be ready to drop the main anyway.

If in these few minutes someone can't tell I'm motoring directly to windward and spot the water coming out the back I'd suggest a cone isn't going to help much.

I'd make an effort with a cone if intending to motor with the main sail up for long periods or in busy waters but buggering about off North Foreland in a bit chop when the nearest boat is 1/2 a mile away - a bit pointless and not really adding much safety.
 
john_morris_uk said:
What's with the slightly silly inverted snobbery of not hoisting the correct day shapes, which appears to be top trumped by 'I don't even own the correct shapes'.

Once upon a time, yachtsmen and women were proud to try and act in a seamanlike way.

And yes, we normally put the correct day shapes up, (although occasionally I can get lazy about it on very short passages.) And showing the correct shapes includes when we were sailing in the Clyde, so those in those waters weren't looking and watching very carefully as we weren't the only vessel complying with IRPCS.
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i don't see the snobbery inverse or otherwise.
I may be a hypcrite, foolish or even negligent.

Fact is its not a required piece of equipment for a boat of the sise mine is.

Just my opinion for practical purposes not all that important. particularly since I'm not in the habit of motor sailing. at night my nav lights a clear.

From a large or faster vesel by the time Im close enuogh to make out a shape, I'm probably already to close.
 
slipknot said:
It is never obvious that you are motoring unless you display the cone. It really pisses me off when it is left to me to alter course to allow for someone who is in effect claiming to be a sailing boat but turns out to be motoring and I shouldn't have had to. They are sitting there oblivious to the situation expecting me to guess what they are doing. At best inconsiderate , at worst misleading & dangerous.
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For me the instance of cone negligence is rare on my own boat, common on others when I am on a motor boat.
But if guilty ocasionaly myself why would I get uptight about others.

Just go round em carry on a get on with life. there will be another along soon
 
I see it took till page 3 to get a real outbreak of seaman-like sense.

First, respect for the regulations, you cannot just pick and choose the ones that suit you. If you haven't got the means to put one up then take a couple of minutes to go halfway up the mast and rivet an appropriate attachment point and buy the necessary string!

Second, respect the captain of the VLCC who really does alter course for us lowly rag and stick sailors (and most do). At several miles distance he cannot know what the wind is doing where you are or see your exhaust. He has to treat you as a sailing vessel if he sees one, two or more sails.

Third, I often keep my engine running in neutral for a short while to put enough charge in the batteries to keep the fridge going and on passage I'll turn it on to keep the auto pilot going. It is in neutral, I am not motor sailing and I do not expect people to assume I am simply because they have approached close enough to see my exhaust.

And now an admission. If I am motor sailing with my deck sweeping 145% genoa I do not put the cone up and I behave as a sailing vessel. I do this precisely because of the problem that the cone can be seen from only one side and if there are three vessels in proximity the potential for confusion is great. However, if we come into close quarters I switch to neutral. I know this flies in the face of my first point but I think it is a seaman-like application of sense.

Finally, I do not think using the visibility problem caused by large foresails is reason for never flying the cone. It is simply an excuse for laziness in making the effort and disrespect for others in expecting them to work out what you are doing.
 
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john_morris_uk said:
What's with the slightly silly inverted snobbery of not hoisting the correct day shapes, which appears to be top trumped by 'I don't even own the correct shapes'.

Once upon a time, yachtsmen and women were proud to try and act in a seamanlike way.

And yes, we normally put the correct day shapes up, (although occasionally I can get lazy about it on very short passages.)
Click to expand...

+1

although I will usually display the cone aft as it is easier to deploy when singlehanded, is not uncommon and fits in with the "or where best seen" bit of the reg. Definiteley a common sight on my recent cruise to/around the Netherlands.
 
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AHoy2 said:
+1

although I will usually display the cone aft as it is easier to deploy when singlehanded, is not uncommon and fits in with the "or where best seen" bit of the reg. Definiteley a common site on my recent cruise to/around the Netherlands.
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25e does not say "or where", it says " forward where it can best be seen" - so not aft and not behind a Genoa either.
 
sailorman said:
OK when real motor sailing with 2 fore aft sails set where do you hoist YOUR cone or do you have 2 of them to deploy on your yacht
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I don't deploy one, hence watching this thread with interest.

I didn't write the COLREGS, but can comment if they are miss quoted.

Could a cone be deployed forward of mast but at the mast head, above forward sail?

Fractional rig=yes, masthead rig=no
 
OceanSprint said:
25e does not say "or where", it says " forward where it can best be seen" - so not aft and not behind a Genoa either.
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Well it gets forward of the steering position in my case :o More importantly it gets seen and understood for what it is, as I said not an uncommon position for one and recommended over the years in yachting articles I have read.
Where do you position yours?

Edit: I see you don't bother.
 
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We had a cone and never used it and I've never seen one in 10,000 miles. It's blindingly obvious that if a boat is moving and has no sails up then it is motoring. An anchor ball is a different matter, in Portugal if at anchor it is illegal not t use one.
 
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