Do you ever display a motoring cone?

Whilst I agree with complying with the col regs, I can't see how the French and Belgian Authorities can get so upset if a motoring cone is not displayed. If they know that you are motorsailing then why do you need to show a cone?
You could deny that you were motorsailing and when they say that they saw you doing so you could point out that in that case there was no need to show a cone to show that you were.
Do they fine fishermen for displaying daymarks when not actually engaged in fishing?
Or survey vessels and the like when they no longer have restrictions on their ability to manoeuvre?
 
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Just a few thoughts.
Why is a cone required?
when is a cone required?

Why? to to signal a vessel which appears to be sailing is actually motering and will act as a power driven vessel.

When?
If I am out in my "sail boat" which is clearly a sail boat. Under way making way. with no sails up. I must be on a power driven vessel.(I supose I could be rowing)
If I am out in my "fishing boat" under way making way. With a steadying sail up. which has no propeling function. Do I require a cone?
What if I am out in my small mobo, which happens to have a steadying sail. Under way making way. Do I require a cone.

In both those examples. I would think not. there is no reason for an observer on another vessel to think i was sailing.

Back to my sail boat, Under way making way. No sails up no cone.

If I am sailing along. Both sails up. Set for wind. Not quite as fast as I would like. put the motor on and into gear to help out.
An observer on an other vessel would probably be under the impresion. I was sailing on some tack or other. when in reality I am a power driven vessel. Cone required?

Now the wind has died theres a bit of a swell I leave the main up to reduce roll. put the diesel on and get underway making way at 5 to 10 knots depending on my boat.

If there is no wind, I am clearly significantly making way. who would be confused? is a cone actually required?
 
Uricanejack said:
Just a few thoughts.
Why is a cone required?
when is a cone required?

Why? to to signal a vessel which appears to be sailing is actually motering and will act as a power driven vessel.

When?
If I am out in my "sail boat" which is clearly a sail boat. Under way making way. with no sails up. I must be on a power driven vessel.(I supose I could be rowing)
If I am out in my "fishing boat" under way making way. With a steadying sail up. which has no propeling function. Do I require a cone?
What if I am out in my small mobo, which happens to have a steadying sail. Under way making way. Do I require a cone.

In both those examples. I would think not. there is no reason for an observer on another vessel to think i was sailing.

Back to my sail boat, Under way making way. No sails up no cone.

If I am sailing along. Both sails up. Set for wind. Not quite as fast as I would like. put the motor on and into gear to help out.
An observer on an other vessel would probably be under the impresion. I was sailing on some tack or other. when in reality I am a power driven vessel. Cone required?

Now the wind has died theres a bit of a swell I leave the main up to reduce roll. put the diesel on and get underway making way at 5 to 10 knots depending on my boat.

If there is no wind, I am clearly significantly making way. who would be confused? is a cone actually required?
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a sailing yacht with no sail`s bent on & under motor is a motor boat therefore no cone req
 
What may be obvious to a sailor might not be to a power vessel operator that has never been on a saily boat.

Probably why there is a day shape rule.

Lets face reality, the only reasons people don't bother is 1. Cant be arsed. 2. Chance of getting caught, nearly zero.
 
capnsensible said:
What may be obvious to a sailor might not be to a power vessel operator that has never been on a saily boat.

Probably why there is a day shape rule.

Lets face reality, the only reasons people don't bother is 1. Cant be arsed. 2. Chance of getting caught, nearly zero.
Click to expand...

Well done! Common sense...!

:-)
 
sailorman said:
wot if really "motor sailing" ( as opposed to just the main set & obviously therefore motoring) with the genny set on say port, how do vessels to stbd see it
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On a line from the spinnaker halyard to the pulpit, give it a flick round the forestay so it hangs outside (to starboard of) the sail. Vessels crossing from the port side, or overtaking, won't be able to see it, but that's ok because they have to keep clear of you whether you are sail or power. It's the guys on your starboard side who need to see it, because it changes them from keep-clear to stand-on.

For what it's worth, I use a cone when in open water likely to contain ships - for me that more or less means the Channel shipping lanes (not TSSes). That's also the place I'm most likely to be fully motorsailing, to speed up a slow passage. I don't usually bother when inshore under Solent rig (jib furled, main amidships, 2200rpm) because it's clear to most people what's going on and I'll be treating ships as constrained by draught and staying out of their way anyway.

Pete
 
In areas where not all boats are bermudan sloops, it might be annoying to be thought to be motoring just because you don't have a jib up.
But it seems to be the case normally.

We have a motoring cone and we use it, it's not hard!
Not that I'm much for motor-sailing, i generaly either sail and arrive whenever, or motor. But when the main is up to stop the boat rocking in a swell, I'll put the cone up.
I don't put the cone up for the short interval between rolling the genoa and dropping the main.
Or in Portsmouth's small boat channel ,as you're required to use the engine anyway.
 
Haven't used the motoring cone on Windermere. Did on the Clyde when necessary.

I do use an anchor ball or light overnight if Anchored. No hassle to rig, if someone was to run into you lessens the doubt as to who is at fault.

If there is a collision I would imagine one of the questions in trying to determine fault would be "What shapes/lights were being displayed".
 
My first post in 2005 was to suggest it would be a good idea, and that I had rarely seen a sailing boat actually only sailing in the area off the Lizard where I was working. There followed 87 pages of ranting about fishing shapes, proving that you don't need a cone. Yes, mine is up, but on a hoist as is required by MCA, and I lower it if it is going to cause trouble, otherwise I give way obviously and in good time so no one has to give way to me unnecessarily. Of course most fishermen just charge towards sailing vessels at every opportunity.
One day I was shooting a string of pots and a small gaffer with all sail set was ghosting along towards me in the light airs. My fault for starting too shoot before he passed, but OTOH my signal was up. Expecting that he would not be able to avoid me with hardly any wind I managed to avoid him, and as he passed saw he was motoring.......Only an inconvenience but I could have done without it.

Bear in mind that if there is an incident the MCA will look at everything, (including for instance the bulbs in the nav lights), and the absence of a cone would be noted if it had a bearing on the situation.
 
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capnsensible said:
What may be obvious to a sailor might not be to a power vessel operator that has never been on a saily boat.

Probably why there is a day shape rule.

Lets face reality, the only reasons people don't bother is 1. Cant be arsed. 2. Chance of getting caught, nearly zero.
Click to expand...

At last - another outbreak of common sense!

Also probably not obvious to the VLCC in the Casquets TSS
 
A motoring cone is required under the rules in the USA too, but apparently only for vessels >12m or 39ft LOA. I would like to comply even though we are only 36ft these days and at least like to have one on board, but true to septic logic over here you cannot buy such things in the chandleries.


So any of you lot who are not bothering to use yours please send it to me please.:encouragement:
 
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pugwash94 said:
At last - another outbreak of common sense!

Also probably not obvious to the VLCC in the Casquets TSS
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So.
How close would a VLCC have to get before my commensurately sized cone for the length of my vessel was readily apparent to the OOW.?
Assuming he or she bothers to look out the window.

My length apox 10m, commensurate cone size? 30cm.

I would suggest they might notice my bold alteration of course to starboard long before my cone was sighted.
 
H
Uricanejack said:
So.
How close would a VLCC have to get before my commensurately sized cone for the length of my vessel was readily apparent to the OOW.?
Assuming he or she bothers to look out the window.

My length apox 10m, commensurate cone size? 30cm.

I would suggest they might notice my bold alteration of course to starboard long before my cone was sighted.
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With a pair of binoculars he would see your cone long before he saw the water coming out of your exhaust...
 
l'escargot said:
H
With a pair of binoculars he would see your cone long before he saw the water coming out of your exhaust...
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As far as I know although the minimum experience requirement before one is qualified to be the OOW on a VLCC has dropped considerably since STCW 95 was adopted.

I believe it is still a bit more than the experience required for Day Skipper or any of the YM certificates.

During this minimum qualifying time. I’m sure anyone with the wits to pass will have noticed sailing vessels require wind to make way under sail and can’t sail directly into it.

I would think they use their binoculars to determine the movement of an approaching small vessel which may or may not be sailing. Long before exhaust or cones are visible.
 
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