Do you ever display a motoring cone?

[prv]

How many yachts over 12m carry and display the prescribed lights and shapes for running aground?

Any that are chartered out - I believe it's a requirement for coding.

EDIT: That applies to the "carry" bit - I'm sure they're hardly ever displayed.

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

I can't see anything in the rules which exempts my dinghy (7'6" GRP at the end of a 50' painter) from the IRPCS requirements - can you? And while it gets me no additional rights, the rules are there for a reason ... to allow give way vessels better information about the course change required.

How many yachts over 12m carry and display the prescribed lights and shapes for running aground?

To answer the second question first, all the ones I've sailed have; but they were a commercially coded so got inspected....

And if you tow your dinghy on a 50' painter perhaps you should put shapes up etc Most yachts don't and so some common sense applies.

There are lots of bits in the rules that suggest seamanlike actions should prevail. NEVER putting a cone up when motor sailing is not very seamanlike IMHO.

 

[charles_reed]

Never even owned one - but then I sail single-handed and quite frequently use the motor to augment a light wind.

I'll never sail in Belgian or Netherlands waters and think the whole business is an utter nonsense.

 

[Coaster]

But there have been countless times when a power driven vessel has taken action to avoid a 'sailing yacht' only to discover to their annoyance that the yacht wasn't sailing at all. Why shouldn't we encourage sailors to avoid ambiguity and comply with IRPCS.

I believe that the rules are to prevent collisions, not to avoid annoyance.

 

[JumbleDuck]

To answer the second question first, all the ones I've sailed have; but they were a commercially coded so got inspected....

And if you tow your dinghy on a 50' painter perhaps you should put shapes up etc Most yachts don't and so some common sense applies.

Hmm. I thought the argument was that one should always follow the rules ... which offer no exemptions for a flubber on a 3m painter. In fact, since it would be a lot less conspicuous than my white GRP dinghy, I think it is arguable that a towed inflatable should display the diamond daymark as well.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hmm. I thought the argument was that one should always follow the rules ... which offer no exemptions for a flubber on a 3m painter. In fact, since it would be a lot less conspicuous than my white GRP dinghy, I think it is arguable that a towed inflatable should display the diamond daymark as well.

But common sense says that towing a dinghy is both obvious and doesn't alter your status under IRPCS. Motoring with your mainsail or sails up and pulling doesn't make it obvious that you are actually a power driven vessel and you have a different status under IRPCS to the sailing vessel that a casual observer might believe you to be.

I'm all for being relaxed about rules and regulations as appropriate, but there's a reason that the IRPCS demand that you put a cone up if you are motoring along with your sails up. We all might assess the necessity differently, but there are times where we REALLY OUGHT to put a cone up and for so many people to be proud that they don't even own one is perverse.

 

[Cruiser2B]

Hmm. I thought the argument was that one should always follow the rules ... which offer no exemptions for a flubber on a 3m painter. In fact, since it would be a lot less conspicuous than my white GRP dinghy, I think it is arguable that a towed inflatable should display the diamond daymark as well.

The diamond daymark is for tows over 200m in length.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm all for being relaxed about rules and regulations as appropriate, but there's a reason that the IRPCS demand that you put a cone up if you are motoring along with your sails up. We all might assess the necessity differently, but there are times where we REALLY OUGHT to put a cone up and for so many people to be proud that they don't even own one is perverse.

I don't own one and I have no intention of buying one. However, in any situation where reasonable doubt might exist about my means of propulsion I would drop and roll the sails.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The diamond daymark is for tows over 200m in length.

Sir needs to re-read the rules, I fear.

 

[capnsensible]

Sir needs to re-read the rules, I fear.

Why?

 

[Cruiser2B]

I need to re-read the rules, I fear.

Fixed that for you.

24(a) A power-driven vessel when towing shall exhibit:

(i) instead of the light prescribed in Rule 23(a)(i) or (a)(ii), two masthead lights in a vertical line. When the length of the tow, measuring from the stern of the towing vessel to the after end of the tow exceeds 200 metres, three such lights in a vertical line,

(ii) sidelights,

(iii) a sternlight,

(iv) a towing light in a vertical line above the sternlight,

(v) when the length of the tow exceeds 200 metres, a diamond shape where it can best be seen.

(b) When a pushing vessel and a vessel being pushed ahead are rigidly connected in a composite unit they shall be regarded as a power-driven vessel and exhibit the lights prescribed in Rule 23.

(c) A power-driven vessel when pushing ahead or towing alongside, except in the case of a composite unit, shall exhibit:

(i) instead of the light prescribed in Rule 23(a)(i) or (a)(ii), two masthead lights in a vertical line,

(ii) sidelights,

(iii) a sternlight.

(d) A power-driven vessel to which paragraph (a) or (c) of this Rule applies shall also comply with Rule 23(a)(ii).

(e) A vessel or object being towed, other than those mentioned in paragraph (g) of this Rule, shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights,

(ii) a sternlight,
(iii) when the length of the tow exceeds 200 metres, a diamond shape where it can best be seen.
(f) Provided that any number of vessels being towed alongside or pushed in a group shall be lighted as one vessel,

(i) a vessel being pushed ahead, not being part of a composite unit, shall exhibit at the forward end, sidelights,

(ii) a vessel being towed alongside shall exhibit a sternlight and at the forward end, sidelights.

(g) An inconspicuous, partly submerged vessel or object, or combination of such vessels or objects being towed, shall exhibit:

(i) if it is less than 25 metres in breadth, one all-round white light at or near the forward end and one at or near the after end except that dracones need not exhibit a light at or near the forward end,

(ii) if it is 25 metres or more in breadth, two additional all-round white lights at or near the extremities of its breadth,

(iii) if it exceeds 100 metres in length, additional all-round white lights between the lights prescribed in subparagraphs (i) and (ii) so that the distance between the lights shall not exceed 100 metres,
(iv) a diamond shape at or near the aftermost extremity of the last vessel or object being towed and if the length of the tow exceeds 200 metres an additional diamond shape where it can best be seen and located as far forward as is practicable.

 

[jerrytug]

Fixed that for you.

 

[RichardS]

I don't own one and I have no intention of buying one. However, in any situation where reasonable doubt might exist about my means of propulsion I would drop and roll the sails.

I seem to remember that if a possibilty of collision arises, which is presumably the situation when any doubt about your means of propulsion would be relevant, you cannot change you obligations under colregs by reconfiguring your status.

Perhaps this means that if another boat or boats on a potential collision course with you have assumed that you are under sail and have therefore deterrmined that they are the give way vessel and you are the stand on vessel, you cannot suddenly change that status by dropping your sails i.e. you are the stand on vessel and you are stuck with it!

On the other hand, my head has just exploded ...........

Richard

 

[fisherman]

The problem might occur when a motor vessel decides to give way to your sails, whilst you, knowing you are actually motoring, decide to also give way: he is on your stbd and turns to port just as you, correctly for a powered vessel. turn to stbd.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Fixed that for you.

I shall just edit down your very useful quotation a little:

(g) An inconspicuous, partly submerged vessel or object, or combination of such vessels or objects being towed, shall exhibit:

(iv) a diamond shape at or near the aftermost extremity of the last vessel or object being towed and if the length of the tow exceeds 200 metres an additional diamond shape where it can best be seen and located as far forward as is practicable.​

Over to you.

 

[slipknot]

I don't own one and I have no intention of buying one. However, in any situation where reasonable doubt might exist about my means of propulsion I would drop and roll the sails.

Or you could quickly turn your engine off. That would do too wouldn't it?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Or you could quickly turn your engine off. That would do too wouldn't it?

Maybe, but if I could sail I'd be sailing!

 

[slipknot]

Maybe, but if I could sail I'd be sailing!

Maybe.

 

[Woodlouse]

The problem might occur when a motor vessel decides to give way to your sails, whilst you, knowing you are actually motoring, decide to also give way: he is on your stbd and turns to port just as you, correctly for a powered vessel. turn to stbd.

There's always a hypothetical situation where things can be made difficult. In an ideal world both vessels will have taken avoiding action early enough to be able to realise and avoid the new risk of collision created by turning into each other. Of course, this might not be the case and the domino effect of several infringed rules is what leads to every collision at sea. Unless possibly when you are anchored you are never completely in the right when involved in a crash.

 

[VO5]

I was motorsailing in the USA displaying a cone.
To my astonishment, the Coastguard came alongside to ask what it was for.