Do we now need an electric boat forum???

[Laser310]

Again, we've done the maths a dozen times.... Even if every car in the UK was EV and doing the same mileage as now, the amount of power the UK would need annually would be less than the historical peak. We are currently 24% below that peak in 2005, and the trend is down, not up, even with all the EVs on the road...,
United Kingdom Energy Information.

This is largely the result of de-industrialiazation.

Britain now imports its high energy products, rather than making them - so the energy use has been transferred to other countries. This trend will continue.

The question of whether de industrialization - not making things - has been good for Britain is beyond the scope of this forum...

Obviously, if people are still to have consumer goods, not every country can de industrialize.

nevertheless, we are still talking about converting all trucks and automobiles to electricity, converting the heating/hot water of every structure in Britain, even other forms of transport: planes, ships...

I still say there is no credible plan to produce that amount of electricity, so the result will be rationing, and there will be less energy available for leisure pursuits.., including unnecessary use of your electric car

 

[flaming]

This is largely the result of de-industrialiazation.

Britain now imports its high energy products, rather than making them - so the energy use has been transferred to other countries.

The question of whether de industrialization - not making things - has been good for Britain is beyond the scope of this forum...

Obviously, if people are still to have consumer goods, not every country can de industrialize.

nevertheless, we are still talking about converting all trucks and automobiles to electricity, converting the heating/hot water of every structure in Britain, even other forms of transport: planes, ships...

I still say there is no credible plan to produce that amount of electricity, so the result will be rationing, and there will be less energy available for leisure pursuits.., including unnecessary use of your electric car

Yes and no. As some may recall I run a factory, our ratio of power in to product out is hugely different now to what it was in years past. Every machine that is bought is more efficient than the one it replaces.
Follow that through into other fields, domestic lighting etc and the general savings from being a bit more efficient are there to see.

For sure electrifying everything, especially heat, comes with some very big challenges, but remember that for EVs, even if you draw all your power directly from a gas power station you still emit less CO2 per mile than an equivalent petrol or diesel car. So even going all EV but retaining gas power stations in the medium term is a net win from a CO2 point of view.

For what it's worth I think that a lot of what is happening now is a huge diversification of supply. Where in times gone by we had a few large power stations, we will instead have huge numbers of relatively small generation facilities. Whether that's Solar, wind, hydro, tidal, some refuse burning etc. And also significant amounts of storage. Current domestic setups of solar and battery are getting close to self sufficiency in the summer months. Start mandating that sort of thing on new builds and the "load" of each new house is drastically reduced. And even more importantly, with battery storage the peak load, which is the real killer, can be spread out. It may well be that for some decades to come we still need a few gas power stations ready to fire up in the depths of winter, but the less they do that the better. Even if we're only fossil fuel free for 6 months of the year, that's a huge step.

 

[LBRodders]

Its not economically ridiculous for the marina operator.

An unused boat has negligible environmental impact. A few boats used a lot have the same environmental impact as many boats used a little (okay not quite but more or less).
Boat ownership is good for wellbeing so justifies any perceived inefficiencies or impacts.

Not at all.

By the math, ATBE 5% of boats could do the job of all the others. That's a huge reduction in manufacturing, maintenance and keep.

Ferrari owners probably say the same about their past time - good for mental health
Access to a shared boat surely is better than no boat.
Either we are serious on the environment or we are not.

 

[LBRodders]

Most of the young people where I work an locally to home live with their parents and have better cars than me.

Yes exactly - so good they cant afford to purchase them out right. They are technically on loan.

 

[LBRodders]

Environmentally, having a boat sitting in a marina, in the big scale of things will be a pretty negligible impact on anything. Considering an example single UK ferry burns 3.5 tonnes of fuel per HOUR, even 200 boats in a marina bobbing around is really going to affect very little. Economically?? I've bought a few boats over the years and economics has one of the first things to forget. I would say most boaters buy boats with the heart and as long as they can just about afford to keep it, that's as far as economics go.

Yes, but this isn't just about that.

The thread is about electric boats. The challenges of electric boats is similar to that of EVs. All solved by group ownership on both counts.

Other than - I want my own boat and car, you cant argue against it!

 

[Momac]

Yes exactly - so good they cant afford to purchase them out right. They are technically on loan.

My car is in loan. I lease it. I haven't owned a modern car since 2005. I did own classic car until 2008.
My wifes car is owned outright but that's the most recent car we have purchased . That was in 2011.

 

[Momac]

Ferrari owners probably say the same about their past time - good for mental health

and they probably do relatively low mileage so no problem

 

[Momac]

Either we are serious on the environment or we are not.

Why does everything have to be like that these days? No middle ground .

 

[Fire99]

Either we are serious on the environment or we are not.

Serious about the environment but using your brain and making changes that genuinely have a significant positive impact, not just appearing to be 'green' whilst unnecessarily restricting people's activities. A whole lot or 'green initiatives' only impact is a new avenue for companies to make money, with absolutely jot real-time positive environmental impact.

If private boat ownership is so critical on the environment, why are superyachts getting bigger and bigger and no-one is making any kind of stir?
You could not build one single superyacht and that would probably cover the fuel use of an entire marina of 'regular sized' boats.

 

[Bouba]

The real benefits in an EV are within automation. With that comes the benefits of driverless tech, not owning one, the charging faff, battery depletion with age issues et al.
So I believe personal ownership will go prior to the end of ICEV. Its the only credible way forward. I think the % of young people who own are car is incredibly low.

So, it could and probably should apply to boats. The % of boats in a marina in anyone time averaged over a year must be >95%. Which economically and environmentally is ridiculous.

It’s true.....most boats are hardly used....and of the ones that are a lot are static cottages...but all my worldly goods are onboard.....my mess...my projects....my toys. If we all had boat share I think that I and many others would probably boat even less

 

[LBRodders]

and they probably do relatively low mileage so no problem

Unless you are the Mayor of London.

Bit like my rarely used coal fire. Not a problem to me, but t'others disagree.

 

[LBRodders]

Why does everything have to be like that these days? No middle ground .

Are you my Mrs?

The middle ground, or a compromise requires giving up something.

My argument is until we can achieve a national driverless car share programme, any benefit from EVs are pretty much inconsequential.

Same with electric boats, which the thread is about

 

[dunedin]

If private boat ownership is so critical on the environment, why are superyachts getting bigger and bigger and no-one is making any kind of stir?
You could not build one single superyacht and that would probably cover the fuel use of an entire marina of 'regular sized' boats.

That is a very good question. They plus all the other aspects of their operations - including private planes/helis to get there and back - are beacons of blatant and privileged two-fingers to any environmental responsibility.
But their owners are probably largely above the law (or bypass them using flag states) - like they are often above paying taxes like commoners.

 

[LBRodders]

It’s true.....most boats are hardly used....and of the ones that are a lot are static cottages...but all my worldly goods are onboard.....my mess...my projects....my toys. If we all had boat share I think that I and many others would probably boat even less

Contrary to how my posts come across, I think there has been a disproportionate reaction to climate change in the UK.
But if you are going to address it, it has to be logical. As a boat forum, surely that comes into the mix?

 

[ari]

That will be our problem as boaters.....as the infrastructure retreats further and further....it will get harder and more expensive for marinas to stock fuel...and when they reach a maintenance milestone, cleaning, repairing, replacing tanks or pumps...might decide to knock it on the head entirely

Why would they do that when they have an entire marina worth of ICE powered boats? you don't seriously think that's going to change in the foreseeable future do you?

 

[LBRodders]

My car is in loan. I lease it. I haven't owned a modern car since 2005. I did own classic car until 2008.
My wifes car is owned outright but that's the most recent car we have purchased . That was in 2011.

Which is sort of my point. Once this [generally old] boating generation leave the game, who is going to buy outright the mass produced stuff?

 

[ontheplane]

No brainer indeed. Don’t buy one. Just like Electric cars the infrastructure aint there and never will be

Have you got an electric car Bigplums? Because that statement is utter cr@p....

I've had an Electric Car for 2 years and covered 38,000 miles in that time. The charging infrastructure could be improved a little I concede, but it is there, it works perfectly well and to say it "Never will be" when it already is is utter rubbish.

I would admit the charging infrastructure for boats may never be, but that's not what you said. I could easily drive from my Home in Bristol to anywhere in the country in my EV and make it there and back without issue - my bladder would need emptying well before the car needs filling!!

I love to see people saying how bad the EV charging infrastructure is when they don't own an EV and have probably no clue how they work or how good the infrastructure is! They make statements like they are experts yet have probably never used an EV charger in their life.

At Sainsburys today there were 10 Ultra Rapid chargers (well 150kw anyhow) - one in use - that means 9 free - as most people have one car, I reckon 9 is enough.....

I have a video showing a typical charger situation at 8pm on a Monday night, on this occasion on the M4 in reading but I can't seem to attach a MOV file? I've put a link to it here.

Not published on You Tube before so may not work!

- I was driving back home from Kent to Bristol - can you see what a horrible struggle it was to find a charger... oh my how very awful it all was.....

 

[Momac]

Which is sort of my point. Once this [generally old] boating generation leave the game, who is going to buy outright the mass produced stuff?

People have been asking that for years yet its rare to hear of a boat being scrapped because no one will buy it (other than accident or fire damaged boats).
There are always some generally not quite so old folks wanting to get into boating.

 

[Bouba]

Why would they do that when they have an entire marina worth of ICE powered boats? you don't seriously think that's going to change in the foreseeable future do you?

I think those marinas that need expensive work will knock on the head...and tell their clients to fill up at the next marina...eventually fuel docks will be further and further apart. Think of it this way....why is petrol so scarce in some area ?...it’s only for economic reasons....it wasn’t worth stocking it back in the red diesel day

 

[Momac]

Have you got an electric car Bigplums?

I bet he does secretly just not telling ,