Do these costs seem about right?

[ontheplane]

Hi all,

Am making an offer on a boat at the moment and have gone up about as high as I feel inclined because the boat lacks a few things I'd ideally like.

So I had the broker give me a few prices and I wondered if people had any thoughts - boat is a 25/26ft American cruiser...

1) Diesel Heating - I want heating with an Eberspaecher / Webasto (rather than a rubbish Chinese copy) - I have seen the kits at about £800 - 900. However, I have just seen "Nordkapp" diesel heaters - which do not look like cheap horrible Chinese heaters - in fact looks to be quite decent (but websites can be deceiving) - and has the benefit of 4g/5g access so you can turn it on and off remotely and the heater is £400 or so (so there will be piping / outlets etc but hopefully that wouldn't add a couple of hundred). They have quoted me £3500 (which is approximate) to fit heating which means they think labour is about £2500... ? Does this seem dear to me - what do the collective think?

2) Bow thruster - I was quite happy - they quoted about £3500 installed which I thought was ok...

3) Anchor Windlass - The boat has a 7.5kg anchor (which seems a little light for that size boat) probably because it doesn't have a windlass. Looks like the windlass itself is about £500-700 and will need a few bits (cable, controller etc) - they quoted me £3000 to fit a windlass which again seems an awful lot for this?

4) Tec-dek / permateak etc - I quite fancy having this fitted - they have quoted me about £3000 for this - but of course this is definitely not an essential, or something we'd need to do year 1....

So all the above came to about £13,000 - which is a crazy amount to add to a circa 25k boat !!

The rest of the boat is pretty much what we want... but if we upped the budget from Circa 25k to 38k then I could buy a much better boat!!

If I could get the heating, windlass and bowthruster fitted for about £6k all in I'd up the budget on the boat and go ahead, but I don't think that's likely....

Has anyone had any of these things fitted recently and what kind of price did people pay for them please.

Thank you.

 

[rafiki_]

Yep, those prices seem ok. You can reduce this dramatically by doing the work yourself?

 

[ontheplane]

Ha ha - I confess I am not the DIY Type!!

There is no way on earth I'd consider doing the bowthruster myself - putting a hole through my boat and relying on me to make it watertight again is an scary thought.

However, I would consider doing some of the laborious work for the heating install myself - running cables and pipes and so forth so that someone competent could connect it all up perhaps....

Don't know how hard a windlass is to install?

The Tek-Dek I could live without for a year or so

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Costs look ok ish. Certainly not way out.

But IMHO of you’ve got 12k to spend on essential upgrades I’d up the budget and spend that on another boat that has these things already sorted. You’ll never see that back in resale value. Especially 1-3. Should be standard.

 

[wonkywinch]

As Sticky says, keep walking, something more suitable is just round the corner. It's not just the cost, its the hassle & downtime. Just buy your way out of that by adding your budget to current boat price and keep looking.

 

[ontheplane]

Yes that's my thoughts too.....

Sadly when SWMBO says "But I like that one much better than all the others we've seen....

And to be fair, compared to the other boats on the market of same Make / Model / Age it is cracking value - it's only if I compare to other models it's not such a great deal - but I think its a higher quality product and it's in good condition and appears well maintained.

In fairness, I could actually live without these things - use a oil filled radiator in the winter when on Shorepower, Pull up the anchor manually, I've never had a bowthruster so can manage without and so forth.....

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Nobody needs a leisure boat. It’s a very discretionary expense. So fix your budget and get the best possible boat for the money. If that’s a cheaper boat with upgrades or a turnkey option isn’t really the point.

 

[Mileholm]

Yes that's my thoughts too.....

Sadly when SWMBO says "But I like that one much better than all the others we've seen....

And to be fair, compared to the other boats on the market of same Make / Model / Age it is cracking value - it's only if I compare to other models it's not such a great deal - but I think its a higher quality product and it's in good condition and appears well maintained.

In fairness, I could actually live without these things - use a oil filled radiator in the winter when on Shorepower, Pull up the anchor manually, I've never had a bowthruster so can manage without and so forth.....

What make, model and year is the one you’re looking at?

I was in a similar situation to your 12 months ago and bought a low-spec 2008 Four Winns 248 Vista at a good price, but now sort of wish I’d spent another £10k and maybe gotten some of the stuff you mention. I’d also like new navionics, a new camper cover, getting cockpit seats reupholstered, etc. but it is very hard to justify spending thousands on a boat that likely won’t be worth more than £30k no matter what is done to it.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Well, that was my point really. I’m currently on boat 3, this one is almost perfect, but if only I …..

 

[ylop]

So I had the broker give me a few prices

There may be cheaper places than the broker! That may involve shopping around. 1 man band installers might fall under the VAT threshold but have less of a business to back up any issue - but would save you 20% on labour. That probably means getting a guy who just does fibreglass work, and someone else who just does electrics etc, plus you supplying the big parts etc and managing them all. Those guys aren’t necessarily the best at turning up / finishing when they said.

and I wondered if people had any thoughts - boat is a 25/26ft American cruiser...

1) Diesel Heating - I want heating with an Eberspaecher / Webasto (rather than a rubbish Chinese copy) - I have seen the kits at about £800 - 900. However, I have just seen "Nordkapp" diesel heaters - which do not look like cheap horrible Chinese heaters - in fact looks to be quite decent (but websites can be deceiving) - and has the benefit of 4g/5g access so you can turn it on and off remotely and the heater is £400 or so (so there will be piping / outlets etc but hopefully that wouldn't add a couple of hundred). They have quoted me £3500 (which is approximate) to fit heating which means they think labour is about £2500... ? Does this seem dear to me - what do the collective think?

Depends how easy to install - it could be a total pain feeding lots of ducting through narrow spaces etc. I’m sure you could get a better deal but the installer will likely have a brand they trust/get a discount from. On that size of boat a Chinese heater with updated exhaust and single outlet might be all you really need.

2) Bow thruster - I was quite happy - they quoted about £3500 installed which I thought was ok...

Gut feel is that is a good price - but do you need in on a boat that size?

3) Anchor Windlass - The boat has a 7.5kg anchor (which seems a little light for that size boat) probably because it doesn't have a windlass. Looks like the windlass itself is about £500-700 and will need a few bits (cable, controller etc) - they quoted me £3000 to fit a windlass which again seems an awful lot for this?

Depends what it involves, on some boats it’s drilling some holes, bolting it in and wiring it up but in others you need to build a strong platform for it etc first. Then the cabling you will all want routed neatly out of sight. Don’t underestimate the cost of chunky cable and good electrical fittings etc. How much will you use the anchor? Many people do it all the time - but those people are probably less likely to use marinas so less likely to worry about how thrusters.

If I could get the heating, windlass and bowthruster fitted for about £6k all in I'd up the budget on the boat and go ahead, but I don't think that's likely....

So you think 3.5k for the bow thruster is a good price, that leaves 2.5k for heater and windlass - I think the only way that is possible is with DIY or very simple installs.

 

[ontheplane]

What make, model and year is the one you’re looking at?

I was in a similar situation to your 12 months ago and bought a low-spec 2008 Four Winns 248 Vista at a good price, but now sort of wish I’d spent another £10k and maybe gotten some of the stuff you mention. I’d also like new navionics, a new camper cover, getting cockpit seats reupholstered, etc. but it is very hard to justify spending thousands on a boat that likely won’t be worth more than £30k no matter what is done to it.

Monterey 245 with a Yanmar diesel - cared for boat £25k - others about are £42k which seems absurd for a 2003/2004 American cruiser

 

[Boaty_Pete]

If you've had boats before, and are very confident you'll have this and enjoy it for several years or more, it many be worth spending the cash on upgrades.
Maybe not all at once?

However you may only see maybe a 15-20% uplift on the overall value, so it only makes sense if you're expecting to fully exploit/enjoy the other 85% of expenditure.

 

[PCUK]

Nothing wrong with Chinese heaters if you use the proper Eber style exhaust parts but as already said, buy a boat that has everything you want as you won't get your money back for all the extras you are contemplating. Also the anchor sounds about right if it a modern design although the heavier the anchor the better!

 

[ontheplane]

I have had boats before and am fine with it.

My partner however hasn’t - this will be her first season boating hence me worrying if I don’t make it lovely (heated, mooring being stress free and her not having to pull up a heavy anchor) she may not want to carry on, but that is of course conflicting with the need to be able to resell if she doesn’t like it without losing not just my shirt but my trousers too!

 

[ontheplane]

Has anyone heard of these Nordkapp heaters. Look proper rather than cheap Chinese but the prices are good and have remote start/stop etc

However I am mindful of the adage - if it looks too good to be true…

Air GSM 4G/5G Diesel Air Heater 2kW / 5kW / 8kW, 12V/24V 2.0

I messaged their “installer” locally who said “yes that looks a nice piece of kit but we aren’t fitting heaters at the moment” suggesting he doesn’t know he’s on their list of approved installers!

 

[ylop]

I have no knowledge of them - but does remote on/off mean it has a sim card? which you need to pay a subscription for? would you use it enough for that? The IDEA of being able to warm the boat up before you arrive is appealing, but the good thing about blown hot air is it really doesn't take long to feel the impact.

 

[Neil1300r]

I have had boats before and am fine with it.

My partner however hasn’t - this will be her first season boating hence me worrying if I don’t make it lovely (heated, mooring being stress free and her not having to pull up a heavy anchor) she may not want to carry on, but that is of course conflicting with the need to be able to resell if she doesn’t like it without losing not just my shirt but my trousers too!

Why would you make your partner haul your anchor up? Do it yourself, leave her at the wheel, teach how to control the boat. That's saved you money on the anchor winch

 

[Freebee]

your asking the broker toquote for the work. They are never going to be the cheapest because they will just sub it out, where you consider the price is high, they probalbly loaded the quote because they dont want to do it...... or thier trades man is asking another trades man to quote hence double profit on the job. would be cheaper to break the work details out to several contractors and select who should get the work yourself.

 

[billskip]

I have had boats before and am fine with it.

My partner however hasn’t - this will be her first season boating hence me worrying if I don’t make it lovely (heated, mooring being stress free and her not having to pull up a heavy anchor) she may not want to carry on, but that is of course conflicting with the need to be able to resell if she doesn’t like it without losing not just my shirt but my trousers too!

Quit while you are ahead

 

[ontheplane]

Some good points above - not fussed about the SIM card - a giffgaff one keeps data forever so might cost £10 a year or something - negligible.

Yeh I think the anchor winch is optional - in reality it all is - people have managed without on the boat for 20 yrs…… it would have just been “nice to have”.. and so am aware it’s a buyers market…