Tender_aft
New member
I think the question says it all.
Do Cat C12's deserve their bad reputation?
- Thread starter Tender_aft
- Start date
bvickers
Member
I wasn't aware they had a bad reputation, but As an owner of a boat with a pair of c12' s then 'no'
Tender_aft
New member
All I know is what I found on the internet. They were even talking about class actions against cat. Would you mind letting me know your experiences? (which HP are yours?)
aquapower
New member
There's no such thing as a good engine if you belive whats on Internet forums. Somebody somewhere would have had a problem and will shout about their bad experience.
henryf
Well-known member
I would also say I hope not. I specifically chose our current boat because it had CAT C12 (715hp) lumps 
Henry
Henry
CMJ
Member
We've done 700 hours on our C12's now and they've been totally faultless and reliable - so either:
1) the internet's telling porkies
2) Caterpillar have sorted any issues out early on.
Or
3) We've been lucky.
I think the answer is 2.
Great engines IMHO
1) the internet's telling porkies
2) Caterpillar have sorted any issues out early on.
Or
3) We've been lucky.
I think the answer is 2.
Great engines IMHO
Latestarter1
New member
In the context of U.S boating yes C12 deserved a bad press, and looking at very small hours clocked up by boaters here there is the difference.
Issues had their roots way back in 3176 and 3196. The design of the charge air cooler manufactured by Modine was defective. Cat used to be very reactive and supportive to product issues, however on this one they dropped the ball big time. Several iterations of charge cooler still leaked water into cylinders,then to make matters worse Cat PR people tried to fight group of disgrunted customers who had set up catdefect.com. The angry customers then enaged attorney who found retired Detroit VP of engineering as well as retired Cat engineers who between them compiled a damming report.
Seems like common sense prevailed and abrasive lady in Cat PR was sidelined told to read up on on writings of Winston Churchill 'jaw jaw always better than war war'. Some sort of deal struck with owners behind catdefect.com and site taken down.
Appears Modine and Cat got the charge cooler sorted in the end.
Issues had their roots way back in 3176 and 3196. The design of the charge air cooler manufactured by Modine was defective. Cat used to be very reactive and supportive to product issues, however on this one they dropped the ball big time. Several iterations of charge cooler still leaked water into cylinders,then to make matters worse Cat PR people tried to fight group of disgrunted customers who had set up catdefect.com. The angry customers then enaged attorney who found retired Detroit VP of engineering as well as retired Cat engineers who between them compiled a damming report.
Seems like common sense prevailed and abrasive lady in Cat PR was sidelined told to read up on on writings of Winston Churchill 'jaw jaw always better than war war'. Some sort of deal struck with owners behind catdefect.com and site taken down.
Appears Modine and Cat got the charge cooler sorted in the end.
Last edited:
Tender_aft
New member
Thanks guys that puts it in perspective.
jfm
Well-known member
The core engine is lovely. I have driven several hours in A+K's C-12 sq58 and the performance of the engines is great.
The problem has been this charge air cooler and in that regard you need to consider the age if you are buying a used boat. Anything after about 2007-8 (ie Henryf's and A+K's boats) will have the latest design of cooler which should be free of problems. Engines before then could have one of Cat's earlier coolers, as the thing was repeatedly redesigned each time they got it wrong in the period from the mid 1990s till 2007 or so. When buying a boat therefore you need to check the engine itself plus the engine serial numbers with Cat dealer, to find out if the engine has the latest design cooler fitted, or an earlier defective design
The problem has been this charge air cooler and in that regard you need to consider the age if you are buying a used boat. Anything after about 2007-8 (ie Henryf's and A+K's boats) will have the latest design of cooler which should be free of problems. Engines before then could have one of Cat's earlier coolers, as the thing was repeatedly redesigned each time they got it wrong in the period from the mid 1990s till 2007 or so. When buying a boat therefore you need to check the engine itself plus the engine serial numbers with Cat dealer, to find out if the engine has the latest design cooler fitted, or an earlier defective design
benjenbav
Well-known member
In many ways I would be more comfortable with a long established product which during the production run had had a problem identified and fixed than with one which hadn't yet failed. Not necessarily to the extent of buying an example which had been rebuilt. But a later engine built after the generic problem had been engineered out of the production for sure.
Nautical
Active member
Can't comment on anything pre 2007, but post 07 there are a lot of them in the Outer Reef fleet (ACERTS), pretty un-bustable engine if a little rough sounding, no issues to date and tens of thousands of hours combined. As mentioned somewhere else CAT reckon on 100,000 gallons through the engines before anything major needs doing. You, me and the rest of us will be long gone before 100,000 gallons have gone through them in a pleasure boat installation. Customers like them because of big CAT marine/industrial network world wide and they just keep going which is what you want in a long distance/ocean cruiser.
Latestarter1
New member
Read and re-read this note and being a pedantic sod not sure I can totally agree with comments about sounding rough. Yes Cat employ a very big timing swing on cold start up to minimise white smoke, which makes it sound like little men inside with hammers trying to beat their way out, however once warm engine is sweet. If you are comparing with other engines in this displacement node, idle quality is nicer than say Volvo D12, and the C12 also packages better than the Volvo as well as having more get up and go for the same power.
As to durability C12 base engine is no better or worse than anything else at this displacement, pleasure boaters will never explore potential engine durability of any heavy duty diesel engine. Sorry but unfounded talk of impressive durability if owner is never going to explore it, is typical boat sales speak.
In reality it is RELIABILITY and rather than durability which makes for carefree boating.
Nautical
Active member
Just my opinion LS nothing techy or any sound reasoning, have driven boats with several different brands with similar displacement and I always felt the C12 sounded a little harsh/ metallic'y when under load. Again reliability etc, just from experience and looking at the Sea Kits maintainence records from quite a few ORY's and none to date have had any serious issues, whereas have sold other brokerage boats with similar sized motors and the odd big issue crops up here and there. So yep, nothing scientific or any supporting data just what I have found which of course coming from where I sit could be considered complete BS