do big boats subsidise small boats in marinas? - or is it the other way round

[Tranona]

Rather crude, but I reckon that smaller boats would be better to have for the marina owner were all boats to be the same. Now the complication: but boats come in all sizes, so the marina has been built to accommodate that. It's a fixed asset, so you want to maximise income, and can't fill it every day. Each time a bigger boat arrives and can be fitted in, it gives a higher income. So the fair policy is to charge long term berth holders by Length x Beam, but visitors by length only.

We looked at that with our club marina but area is not a good discriminator as widths between fingers are largely fixed and it is easier to vary size by length as you cant easily narrow the berths to get more boats in if they are narrow beam. Area works better in the Med where fingers may not be used and boats just back up to a quay side by side, so beam does influence capacity. we do however charge yard use by area as space is limited and capacity is determined more by area used.

 

[johnphilip]

The other effect of charge by length.

If marinas were not charging by length but by another criterion we would probably have better looking modern boats with fewer vertical stems, the bows might be allowed to revert to a more attractive line, and I doubt they would have developed fold away bathing platforms.

 

[dylanwinter]

Re: The other effect of charge by length.

If marinas were not charging by length but by another criterion we would probably have better looking modern boats with fewer vertical stems, the bows might be allowed to revert to a more attractive line, and I doubt they would have developed fold away bathing platforms.

you mean that cheese wedge school of yacht design is all down to their owners seeking to save a few bob on marina costs..... well blimey!

 

[Tranona]

Re: The other effect of charge by length.

you mean that cheese wedge school of yacht design is all down to their owners seeking to save a few bob on marina costs..... well blimey!

Exactly! Thought it was all to do with increasing waterline length and therefore speed potential, plus maximising the amount of space for a given length and volume of materials. Just like many old working craft where vertical stems and transoms were the norm. The old boys knew a thing or two about getting the biggest bang for their buck.

Not to say that marina fees are not an influence is some parts of the world. The 12m length is a big break point where per m charges rise and berths are more scarce, so if you are paying a permanent berth in many Riviera marinas the annual cost shoots up over 12m, hence many boats are built just under the limit.

 

[haydude]

The berthing charge is like a tax, or rather more like a mafia extorsion nowadays given that there is no alternative, nor any space for negotiation.
They look at your boat and calculate how much you can spend depending on its size and that way they milk the most out of you, knowing that if you do not pay there will be another idiot ready to take your space and pay the fee.

Often I wonder if we could create a berth holder union to increase our power of negotiation.

 

[FullCircle]

Re: The other effect of charge by length.

you mean that cheese wedge school of yacht design is all down to their owners seeking to save a few bob on marina costs..... well blimey!

My Jeanneau SO35 is the same width as a Moody 346......

 

[Tranona]

Often I wonder if we could create a berth holder union to increase our power of negotiation.

Unions only work if they have a monopoly of some sort on a scarce resource - for example tube train drivers. In the case of marinas it is the suppliers who have the monopoly over the scarce resource, hence their ability to determine the terms of business.

 

[Tranona]

Re: The other effect of charge by length.

My Jeanneau SO35 is the same width as a Moody 346......

Yes, it is surprising how little overall beam has increased. 3.3 -3.5m for cruising boats of 10-11m has been common for many years. It is the LOA/LWL ratio that has changed and the way the beam is carried further towards the ends, particularly to the aft end.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Do big boats subsidise smaller ones? Yes they do and long may it continue.

 

[haydude]

Unions only work if they have a monopoly of some sort on a scarce resource - for example tube train drivers. In the case of marinas it is the suppliers who have the monopoly over the scarce resource, hence their ability to determine the terms of business.

Berth holders too have the monopoly over a scarce resource which is money, but have no power because they are divided. If they were united they could better control their resource.

As a collateral the greed of marinas is also what causes the demise of honest shipwright businesses because it leaves boat owners with less cash to spend on professional maintenance and repairs. The case of SSL Shipwrigth in Brighton and Eastbourne is a very good example.