DIY Boat Surveys!

Zagato

Zagato

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Trying to save a few hundred pounds couldn't I just hear the engine running and borrow a moisture tester jobbie from someone to test the hull?

Provocative question but all well and good if I can save money on low budget 10K boat! How much are surveys on say a 25' yacht? The hull/structural integrity and engine are important but anyone can see what the rigging/sail and cooker condition is like. :eek:

How do they test the engine and hull?
 
I am in the same situation,looking for a seaworthy boat for a max of 10,000 euros.The problem is being confident that you actually know enough to hand over the cash.Surveying is based on gained knowledge as well as therory of materials and contruction.Having handed over the spondoolicks you can be confronted by an over whelming dread that what seemed a minor problem,easily fixed can turn in to a nightmare,,,taking your cash with it
 
Hull seems to be judged by close inspection, especially around joints and potential stress raisers, such as mast foot, chainplates, rudder post, bulkheads, etc. The meter readings for moisture content also need to be interpreted through experience, such as accepting that a locker can cause increased moisture level due to reduced air circulation.

Engines are often not started or inspected in any detail, particularly if the boat is ashore and has no cooling water available.

When I bought my boat I was lucky enough to have to spend the day with the surveyor as we were both far from home and I had borrowed the keys to the boat. Together we covered more ground than might have been the case - two heads are better than one when looking to gain access to hidden areas! I also had first hand experience of what had been seen, which helped in interpreting the written survey report. Many surveyors do not like to be watched at work, so I feel really lucky.

I agree that with a lower priced boat, especially if you're intending to use it for day sailing, you are likely to spot all the really significant issues yourself. However, a DIY type who will be doing all his own repairs and maintenance is on safer ground than someone who intends to pay the yard to do the work - they may not report anything else they see during the work they are commissioned to do.

Rob.
 
Boat surveys are just like boats. A DIY survey by a competent, knowledgeable and enthusiastic private individual is similar to a boat built by a competent, knowledgeable and enthusiastic amateur. On the other hand there will be the ignorant, botched efforts by others.

Professional surveys are analogous to the craft produced by boatbuilders. There will be the rather dubious cheap offerings; the average, middle-of-the-road work and the expensive, top quality products by the few at the top of their field.

As with most things in life you usually only get what you pay for. If you have the relevant knowledge and time it generally makes sense to rely on your own judgement.
 
I don't see any problem in doing it yourself. However you may run into insurance problems.

My approach would be to produce a very comprehensive report itemising EVERYTHING you have inspected, how it was inspected and photographs of everything. Get it notarised by a local solicitor.

If the report is say 25 pages long and professionally produced I doubt whether the insurance companies can turn it down. After all a lot of so-called surveyors are little more than self styled 'experts' anyway.

It's certainly worth a try. In addition you will know the boat intimately and should it come to requiring a professional then you can sit him down at the saloon table and get him to go over your report, He'll then know that you know what you are talking about and not be tempted to put in stuff ' just for appearances'. like 'rig is 10 years old must be replaced' which IMO is complete bo$$ocks.
 
survey

You will need a surveyors report if you want to insure it fully comp.

On a budget 10K boat, I can't believe he won't find something that will need replacing/repairing/not working.

The survey result will give you reason to haggle on price, his fee will be more than covered by what you can knock off the asking price.

Cheers
Homa
 
Most insurers will accept a BSC in lieu of a full survey. Typically a BSC inspection costs between £60-£120. If you are going to keep it on a controlled waterway, you will need one anyway, if the boat already has one all the better. The insurers will insure you for UK and European tidal waters, also of course inland waters. While you don't actually need a BSC for uncontrolled waters, it is a sort of insurance policy in itself, as you would be surprised how many people have boats that would not pass the inspection.
 
All depends. If you have owned lots/ sailed many/built one, you might have the skill to do your own. And bite the bullit if you screw up. Otherwise self protection 'might' come from a pro. Lots of good advice above. A sub 10k will probably need some TLC, so I assume you are good at DIY, unless it is very small.
I needed a survey for Ins. Based on €35 a mtr. Not sure how that relates to UK. Only 3rd party, but it would have done for fully comp.
What would cost the most to fix? Have a very good look at those bits.If you are not sure, get a pro.
A
 
I have used a self-written survey to satisfy an insurance company on my current boat - some years ago. I used a copy of a professional survey on a previous boat to understand the style/ structure & scope. I signed it myself so it was clearly self done & used my professional status (C.Eng) to demonstrate basic competence.

I identified a number of minor issues & proposed repairs which were later done. It did look quite profesional & the insurance's office girl seemed quite happy with it. ;)

I was also happy to accept responsibility for my own limitations. Only had Sea Rush for 25 years, but so far no unexpected shocks. :rolleyes:
 
Zagato said:
Trying to save a few hundred pounds couldn't I just hear the engine running and borrow a moisture tester jobbie from someone to test the hull?

Provocative question but all well and good if I can save money on low budget 10K boat! How much are surveys on say a 25' yacht? The hull/structural integrity and engine are important but anyone can see what the rigging/sail and cooker condition is like. :eek:

How do they test the engine and hull?
Click to expand...

If you ask for a structural survey, not a full one, you can save a lot of money which otherwise you pay for inventory and useless cosmetic assessment.

Engine and rigging will never receive more than superficial comment because the surveyor cannot assess the condition of each without invasive testing, whcih is clearly not on!

A confident vendor will gladly run the engine and hoist the sails!

DIY?
Hull integrity; moisture testing has value, especially on older boats. The hull can be checked by you for any cracking (internally and externally) that suggests possible failure - look also at furniture, chainplate and bulkhead bonding to the hull - is it still firmly intact? (the bare finger tests is useful here - any roughness casued by glasswork fracturing?) Look along the hull on the outside and note if there are any hard points - where the line of internal fittings seems to be distorting the hull shape: this might cause you to think twice.

It's important to look at the boat as a piece of machinery. The temptation when doing your own survey, is to look at the boat for cosmetic details, wear etc and get deflected from what makes for integrity - fitness for purpose!

PWG
 
£10K
Depends if you see that as a stretch or easily managed.
If it's your own money and you will settle for 3rd party insurance (depends on being confident in your own ability) do it that way.
If you want the comfort of higher premiums and a professional survey, pay the price.
 
Self Survey

Our yacht broker / Insurer will accept a "Self Survey" on boats up to £10K and 26 feet so long as you provide photographs of the hull from every angle and a few of the inside.

They sent a pre-printed document where you simply fill in the condition of each item on the boat as being Good, Fair or Poor and add what remedial action you plant to take to improve the item.

Also best to add any lifesaving items such as flares, lifejackets, gas detectors, date of any flexible gas pipes (they should be changed every five years I am told)

JC
 
There could be an issue of professional liability. If a surveyor makes a bad mistake, he/she carries professional indemnity insurance that SHOULD pay up for any consequent damages - for example, if the surveyor says the hull is sound, and the bottom drops off on the first sail! If you do the survey, you won't have any equivalent cover. I could imagine an insurance company refusing to accept a survey by someone who did not have professional indemnity insurance. We have an example given of a company that does allow self-survey - but on its own form, with clearly laid down areas to be inspected. It seems to me that the sub-text is "don't expect us to cover something you said was in good order unless it was damaged by an accident"!
 
I insured with GJW who the previous owner was insured with and they never mentioned a new survey ,probably because he had one previously 3 or 4 years before.
So probably for insurance purposes if there is a recent survey that may well be okay.You can always check before buying.
 
specify!

As I understand it, you get the full bells and whistles if you ask for a survey. But you are equally able to specify what you want testing, and by whom. I'd get the gas looked at by a local marine Gas Safe person, invite a rigger to look if in any doubt and get some local quotes for a structural survey only by a surveyor. In other words - check the stuff you want checking. A surveyer said my prop blades were out of true asnd the insurance company wanted that fixed at peril of the engine busting. I couldn't see anything wrong. A yard mechanic couldn't see anything wrong - and the insurers took my word on those 'reasonable steps'.
 
Ask the insurer

I looked at an ETAP trailer sailer recently that was less than ten years old with an asking price c.£16K. I asked the insurer whether a survey was required and he said "no". I didn't even have to admit that I'm a CEng or that I work in the industry.

I suspect that the older the boat and the more obscure it's origin the more likely they are to insist on a survey.
 
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