Ditch the generator?

[kashurst]

I have a hate - hate relationship with my Paguro 4KVA generator. It hates me and I hate it. Came with the boat about 5 years ago and was in a bad way. Farryman engine, ran rough, and overheated really quick. No problem, stripped it all, new exhaust valve, lapped everything in again all was well. Last year it wouldn't start. Because of Covid haven't had chance to look at it until today. It looks and feels like there is very little compression again. Injector is squirting OK, lots of fuel getting through (and over me). But it is quite easy to turn the engine over by hand. I am guessing the exhaust valve has gone rusty (again).

Do I fix it again? Remove it as I rarely ever use (probably why its knackered again)? Or get an Inverter?

If I (can) fix it again, any suggestions for preserving it to stop the valves etc going rusty.

 

[Pinnacle]

Get a Kohler?

 

[Portofino]

Stainless steel valves .Bring the head home over the winter .

Or Bodge TM - fresh water flush …..Q - MapishM

Is there a way of hand turning it looking at the timing marks so’s the E valve is closed when you leave the boat ? Retro fit this .


Failing this .Replace with a Yanmar air cooled powered .Smaller Mase .

I had a Farryman in a Fisher Panda .= 2x hassle …….never again on both counts.

 

[BruceK]

the latest incarnation of the 4kw Paguro has a Yanmar in it. Are they any better?

 

[andy59]

In 6 years our Onan 4 kva has only let us down when i plugged the intake with weed in poole harbour (switched itself of ).It only does about 20 hours a year but just works .

 

[vas]

why you think an inverter will work for what you want? How are you going to replenish the batteries?
I'd guess you both need an inverter and a functional geny
unless you're loaded with solar, but even so, there's always things that wont quite work or will hammer the batteries way too much!

 

[rafiki_]

Only ditch the gennie if you are happy running the engine(s) to charge the batteries and run an inverter

 

[Dino]

I have a 4kW Fisher Panda that came on my boat. It was fitted around 12 years ago. Runs great and never lets me down. It has the same Farryman engine but mine runs great. Mind you, I am based on fresh water.
I'm tempted to add an inverter to charge a laptop and run the Nespresso machine. It’s a bit of a faff having to run the genny to make a coffee but maybe it keeps her running better.

 

[kashurst]

I am based on fresh water.

I had one on a boat on fresh water and that was OK for years. I think my problem stems from lack of use and long periods of idleness - hence rust etc build up

 

[Bran]

I have a fisher panda also 4.5kVA, used freshwater, lost compression a year ago, wouldn’t start. Removed head, valves looked ok, reground inlet valve ok, couldn’t get a complete grind around all the exhaust seat. Could just about see daylight around part of the valve seat when it was closed.
Took it to a specialist engineer, yeh no problem we will just lap it in. Got a call next day, says they will have to fit a new valve seat, asks have you replaced the valve guide? Not me I reply, picked up the head a day later, they had a lively discussion between themselves as they had never seen distortion in the valve seat position relative to the guide position. They fitted a new seat, reground the valve, all ok. Been running great since, just waiting for it to fail again. Recon the head distorted, no issues with cooling water, recon it’s a crap fisher designed cylinder head.
Like the look of the new Paguru, Yanmar engine, nice engineering, if the fisher fails big time it curtains!

 

[Portofino]

Farrymans were notoriously week from a corrosion pov .
They might be different nowadays ?
Mine a 2005 was direct seawater cooled so basically a grenade waiting to rot out .
I don’t think the valves are up to the marine environment. BTW a S/ Steel valve is a £20 part .Oh why oh why did they not use them .

Heres some pics .Realise today they may be closed water cooled

Blocks rotting out ^^


Some “ alloy “ manifold thats furring up externally - your guess what’s it like internally is as good as mine !
Crucially the raw water in ( sea water in my case ) is high up .See the red line .So when it’s switched off if the seawater level does not soak away then it’s pretty close to the valve .Not good .

My Yanmar is air cooled never sees any water think a motor bike engine .It’s got a S/Steel manifold and the injection port is a lot lower .Sorry no pics guys .
I do realise a lot have gone to closed water cooling nowadays .
Running regularly obviously helps longevity, but us med boys + Covid is not conducive to this .
Having said that it just survived 8 months of inactivity .

Suppose those that have the exhaust manifold empty of water at shut down are better than those that it does not drain off ??
Heat soak should dry it internally if it drains down .This means some blame if you like on early demise of the Farryman could be pinned at the installers door .
You know “ super silent exhaust kits “ .Relative heights of the apparatus vs water line .Elbows and loops heights etc etc .

If the sea water ends up close to the Farryman head after shutting down = hassle the Ops writing about .

Indeed rag + stick boys whinge when the boat heels water has run back in to the open cylinder = hydrolock if it’s started or if it parked up - next season it a crock of corrosion inside ceased up .
A mobo might , just might in swell of rocking copy this ?

 

[volvopaul]

I have a hate - hate relationship with my Paguro 4KVA generator. It hates me and I hate it. Came with the boat about 5 years ago and was in a bad way. Farryman engine, ran rough, and overheated really quick. No problem, stripped it all, new exhaust valve, lapped everything in again all was well. Last year it wouldn't start. Because of Covid haven't had chance to look at it until today. It looks and feels like there is very little compression again. Injector is squirting OK, lots of fuel getting through (and over me). But it is quite easy to turn the engine over by hand. I am guessing the exhaust valve has gone rusty (again).

Do I fix it again? Remove it as I rarely ever use (probably why its knackered again)? Or get an Inverter?

If I (can) fix it again, any suggestions for preserving it to stop the valves etc going rusty.

Been stood a while …….
Did you pull the cold start device ?

 

[kashurst]

Been stood a while …….
Did you pull the cold start device ?

There is no cold start device on mine. You can see where it would be but it is "off" so to speak. I will order a head gasket plus odds and sods and give it another try.
manual cranking its a little stiff at first 1/4 turn but there after it sails around with no feel of a compression cycle.
If that fails it would be a better anchor than a delta if anyone is interested.

 

[Bigplumbs]

This I am sure is a very stupid question but why can’t you generator people just buy a nice Honda stand alone Genny as use the world over

 

[Bouba]

This I am sure is a very stupid question but why can’t you generator people just buy a nice Honda stand alone Genny as use the world over

I used one once and they are seriously noisy on a boat. Not recommended

 

[vas]

also in the wrong setup, fumes from the exhaust may enter the cabin and affect/kill occupants. IIRC something like that has happened in the past.
you need a fairly large boat to have a 2/4 stroke petrol engine running safely far away from ppl but in larger boat it's easy to have a proper marine installed watercooled diesel engine in the e/r.

slightly OT, sorry K.:
As far as I'm concerned, main issue with generators (assuming they are running when asked to ) is vibration/noise. You really need a 1500rpm aka 4pole generator and NOT a 3000rpm aka 2pole one.
Now, a small 2-3cyl diesel of 600-900cc @1500rpm gives out 5-7hp only good for a 4kw 4pole, but @3000rpm output is a healthy 10hp+ which means good for a 8kw 2pole one.
Hence all the smaller ones are noisy but if you go to a boat with a 10+kw generator running of a 4cyl diesel you only hear or feel a whisper.
To make things even worse it's almost impossible to find a 4kw 4pole one (was considering "downgrading" from my 8kw to a slow speed 4kw) instead of trying to insulate the high speed setup...

V.

 

[Portofino]

the latest incarnation of the 4kw Paguro has a Yanmar in it. Are they any better?

Came across some pics of the Yanmar ,in my Mase Jenny .
l will leave it to folks to compare theses with the earlier pics of the Farryman and arrive at there own conclusions to answer this ^^^ Q ?


That black thing with the pipe is a seawater intercoolers, the seawater only flows through that .Sits transverse so all the air drawn in is cooled .

Note the E manifold material , and spot the cylinder fins because the engine is air cooled .

20 years old ……….I can’t bust it .Bless those Japanese.

This is the belt ( Citroen AX €4 in France ) to the fan .Those that have had air cooled cars will be familiar.

Whole thing sits in a box on mounts over the V of the keel in the middle of the boat .I have added extra sound proofing as well inside the box .

That seawater intercooler is anode protected .€10 in italy .The motor takes wait for it 0.75 L of oil .It gets what ever goes in the mains currently 15/40 W .Even has its own oil change pump ( not show) so it’s a 10 min easy job to do .
Its got a basic mesh bolt on oil filter I have changed once , you know the mesh ones that can be cleaned .
The Farryman iirc did not have an oil filter .Anyhow i think the Farryman when it was designed was NOT designed for a marine environment.It was designed for hand portable fireman’s pumps for German rescue services stuff like that .Just happened to be small and cheap ( made in the EU re import duties etc ) so other EU manufacturers jumped on them .

Cock of shit in a sea boat .
How those materials got CE marked makes a mockery of the European standards . Take a look at the alloy E manifold fizzing away .
Farryman ^^^ This will never last 20 yrs .Not a snow balls chance in hell .

 

[MapisM]

Stainless steel valves .Bring the head home over the winter .
Or Bodge TM - fresh water flush …..Q - MapishM

Huh?
I can think of several components which I'd rather leave in contact with fresh rather than salt water, but valves aren't among them.
I mean, if they get in contact with the raw water of the cooling circuit, there's something wrong regardless of whether such water is fresh or not!

 

[Cavalierbond]

I’m in the same position myself ... fairyman in a whisper 4000 .. managed to get it going but it’s let us down at the important moments
Engineer has said to take it totally out and he will rebuild it ...
we have a induction stove and are plugged into the shore 90 percent of the time .. bought a camping stove for tea but would like the genny back up for the engines and phones

 

[BruceK]

also in the wrong setup, fumes from the exhaust may enter the cabin and affect/kill occupants. IIRC something like that has happened in the past.
you need a fairly large boat to have a 2/4 stroke petrol engine running safely far away from ppl but in larger boat it's easy to have a proper marine installed watercooled diesel engine in the e/r.

slightly OT, sorry K.:
As far as I'm concerned, main issue with generators (assuming they are running when asked to ) is vibration/noise. You really need a 1500rpm aka 4pole generator and NOT a 3000rpm aka 2pole one.
Now, a small 2-3cyl diesel of 600-900cc @1500rpm gives out 5-7hp only good for a 4kw 4pole, but @3000rpm output is a healthy 10hp+ which means good for a 8kw 2pole one.
Hence all the smaller ones are noisy but if you go to a boat with a 10+kw generator running of a 4cyl diesel you only hear or feel a whisper.
To make things even worse it's almost impossible to find a 4kw 4pole one (was considering "downgrading" from my 8kw to a slow speed 4kw) instead of trying to insulate the high speed setup...

V.

The Paguro 4 SY I mentioned is a single at 3k rpm but only puts out 54db -7m. That's the same as the Honda suitcase genny. In it's insulation box with a trap to separate water and exhaust (to avoid splashing sounds) would it still be as bad as having a Honda onboard? (CO2 concerns etc excluded, just noise factor) It has double anti-vibration feet. One inside the casing and the other outside the casing. This is further dampenned by sitting on 18mm marine ply plate which itself is on anti vibration feet.

This is a real concern because I am considering one but really do not like the noise of a genny hence my LifePO4 project.