Dingy dangers

[iangrant]

Yesterday afternoon I was heading west from East Head, under motor, in Chichester Harbour not long after low water. The channel north of the winner bank is quite narrow at this point for the amount of vessels heading both in and out of Chichester harbour.
There was a sailing boat under engine on my port side, a little astern about the same speed.
The usual dingy races were underway, the committee boat was just north of the channel.
From behind the committee boat, travelling south, came one of the competitors (a flying something, quite big) travelling about 10/15 knots and sure enough,straight into the channel on a collission course. My instant reaction was to do a crash stop, and turn hard over to port (no room to starboard) the other sailing boat managed to stop in time, the skipper looked at me and shrugged also in despair, the bast**d in the dingy never even looked up. I shouted to him "a thank you would be good" to which he turned back and replied - "why, your supposed to give way".

I went over the the committee boat and suggested that he should be awarded extra points for rudeness, in fairness they did apologise and promised to have a word.

My point is I had to do a crash stop in a narrow channel, risking a collision with the vessel astern (and the others behind him).

Next time dingy boys be warned I'll sure be tempted to stand on, it'll hurt you more than me.

Do we assume these dingys are insured?


Ian

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[Guest]

Same problem everywhere, Ian. I have got so close to just carrying on and letting the b*stards run into the side of me, and claiming that I was restricted in my ability to manoeuvre, but you just know the buggers won't be insured the day you do...

However, ColRegs Rule 9b states: "A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

Must remember to carry a cylinder, too.

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[Boathook]

I assume that the cylinder indicates that you are confined to a channel etc. with restricted ability to manourve.. Thing is though, what size beer tin to use .....

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[tony_brighton]

Most dinghy clubs insist on 3rd party insurance. Not sure its rigorously enforced though.

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[spurnclass]

Re: Dingy dangers-help requested?

All,

I am in total agreement with you all regarding these dingy issues. As a relatively new owner of a 25 foot yacht I am experiencing continuous problems with Dingy sailors on the stretch of the river Deben between Woodbridge and Felixstowe Ferry. The main areas of concern are in Woodbridge itself, the deep water area between Woodbridge and Waldringfield, and waldringfield itself. What I cant understand (perhaps someone would be kind enough to enlighten me) is why these dingy sailors insist on using the bouyed area of the river that all large yachts, motorboats etc use to navigate this stretch of the river? The river is so wide at all these parts, but continuously you find yourself having to perform violent turns, variations on power to avoid kamikaze approaches. On Saturday afternoon I witnessed two kids (apprentley unsupervised) career straight into a 35 foot motor cruiser at about 10 knots. This was just one of many incidents that I have seen over the last few weeks. As someone relatively new to all this, can you experts out there advise me if this is something that just has to be accepted as part of the sailing experience on the Deben, if so, how am I best to try and avoid hitting these people??

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[Neraida]

Seems to be a problem everywhere. I can usually keep clear of dinghys racing when I go out as their course is not too close to the marina entrance and when they have a different course further out they are towed by the club ribs until they are well out of the way so I can't complain about that, v considerate, but.... there seem to be loads of dinghy sailors out on their own who just couldn't care less about your boat or anyone elses in the water and insist on tearing across the bow/alongside the boat and always cause people to have to attempt the strangest of manouvres to get out of their way. This happened to me on Saturday which as most who were out in the Solent and Soton water will know was a bit gusty and as we were taking down sails and being blown down the Itchen at about 5 knots we had to dodge out of the way of a dinghy that was weaving in and out of us. There were about another 7 boats around at the time, all having to use the narrow channel. Why oh why can't they be just a little more considerate and use the rest of the water to charge around in when it's busy? We would if we could.
Fuuny how if you play them at their own game they either shout at you or pretend they haven't seen you and force you to move out of the way before they hit you.

rant over

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Dinghy dangers Fowey

Had great fun getting into Fowey on Saturday - the local T class were at it in spades inside the harbour (as they would have sunk out side!) they were short tacking up the harbour and giving no notice at all of tacking. In the space of 3 minutes we had had to do 4 emergency manouvers with one which we thought we would pass astern tacking within 3 boats lenghts. However these little keelboats are a great sight - totally overcanvassed blowing around 6. There was no cheery wave or thanks at all - which was a little disappointing.

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[spurnclass]

Re: Dingy dangers-individual nutcases!

I would definitely agree with your comments regarding the individuals, rather than the organized groups. The organized dingy sailing groups in my area do exactly the same thing, it is the individuals which are causing the problem. Its just so frustrating for someone like me, as I am always airing on the side of caution- and don't have a great deal of confidence to hold my course! Perhaps its because I am relatively new to all this, but if I were a dingy sailor I am sure I would get more enjoyment of sailing in an area away from a busy channel, rather than running the risk of getting crushed! As a question, could someone advise just how much damage would a 25 foor GRP yacht doing 5 knots do to a sailing dingy? And is there a serious chance that the yacht would be badly damaged as well?

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[Twister_Ken]

True confessions

Once racing a Fireball from HISC we were spinnaker reaching in the vicinty of East Head. Suddenly the boom when clang, clang, clang. We'd rattled it off the stanchions of an anchored cruiser that I hadn't even seen. Ashamed didn't come into it.

When you're racing a dinghy (please note the h), on the fine edge of control - or beyond, you do tend to be very narrowly focussed on your boat and your competitors and not as aware of your environment as you should be.

Older (much) and wiser (a little) now.

BTW - race officers used to set courses in and across the main channels back then, as well. A fast dinghy with the board down needs at least 3 feet of water - maybe more, so the options of exploiting the shallow patches only really occur near the top of the tide, or on downwind legs where you can hoick the board up.

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[iangrant]

Re: True confessions

noted the H - this guy was dingy!

Ian

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[Guest]

Re: Dingy dangers-individual nutcases!

I may be tempted to find out how much damage 5.5 tonnes of 30 foot motorcruiser can do. Great idea about the beer can for a cylinder, BTW. No shortage of those on board, so now I'll just have to empty one...

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[brianhumber]

Have had the same even when sailing (some dinghies assume all yachts will be motoring in the harbour). I tacked up the harbour low water Springs in March and met a race right on the turn at Sandhead. 45' Baraccuda on Starboard meets dinghies on Port - Result Yacht 1, Dinghies 0 they were all very friendly and waved to me.

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[ParaHandy]

without fail every week, almost, somebody comes through itchenor and has a whinge about the dinghy racers getting in their way .... mutterings about being restricted etc ...

c'mon guys, these kids have to learn ... the really lethal ones are the mustard keen types looking straight ahead with nary a glance to left or right ...

wonder if you would all be outraged by a 100,000t ship running down a yacht and the conversation on the big boats'r'us web site went in a similar vein ...

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[Guest]

Re: Foul!

Not the same thing at all! If we all decided that th ebest place for cruising and conducting MOB drills was the TSS in the channel, I'd agree with you, but these idiots have acres of room to use, but still insist on racing across harbour channels.

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[iangrant]

Re: Foul!

and this was no kid is a dinghy, if it was I'd have said nought, it was one of those flying thingy's with a 14 stone gorilla on it..

Ian

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[spurnclass]

Re: Foul!

All I would say is that I for one wouldnt want my kids hitting a massive motor cruiser full on as mentioned in one of my earlier posts. I think dinghy sailing for kids that is organisied properly is an absolutely fantastic pass time (and what a great introudction to boating), but seeing kids unsupervised, sitting in the middle of a busy channel capsising 20ft in front of you is a bit of a worrying situation. I just hope I keep missing them!


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[Jacket]

Yes, every week we get people moaning about these dinghy sailors, but how often do we hear about actual collisions?

When I used to race dinghies, it was usual to pass each other with a foot or less of water between boats - dinghies are responsive enough that you can do this safely. Therefore, passing a yacht with a couple of meters clearance is nothing. If yachts do what vessels in a restricted channel are meant to do (hold their course and speed) then there won't be a problem.

The problem is than dinghy sailors forget that yachties aren't used to boats passing so close - and what is an easy miss to them looks like a collision course from on board the yacht. and remeber, as others have pointed out, the dinghy sailor will come of a lot worse from a collision (dead!) than you will, so they have an incentive to miss.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't idiots out there who will force there way past yachts - I know there are, having had rows with some of them. But I do think much of what we put down as near misses and irreponsible behaviour is just sensible sailing, which we wouldn't think twice about if it was us in the dinghy.

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[Neraida]

I've never seen any kiddies in Soton water that aren't chaperoned by club ribs etc and well clear of traffic. Southampton water HA are constantly reminding yacht clubs that race near/in the shipping channels about their responsibilty as racers to stay away from commercial vessels and give way to others otherwise they won't be allowed to race anymore. Don't mean to sound like I'm whinging, live and let live, the water is there for everybody to enjoy but a days sailing is often ruined by an avoidable scare.

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[Guest]

Re: Now there\'s the rub

There is a concept of a 'comfort zone' for boats, and the research (from memory, so forgive me if it's not 100%) shows that the 'comfort zone' for a skipper is 5 boat lengths ahead, and three times the beam to either side. Now, bear in mind this is 5 times the length of the skipper's boat, not yours.

So, you may well be as manoeuverable as hell, but get closer than 5 boat lengths from the bows of a ferry, and the skipper will start to have kittens in a small, professional way, even though you know you can keep clear. It is everyone's duty to stay outside the other vessel's comfort zone, and even if you reduce the numbers slightly, a dinghy within 20 feet (2 x 10' beam) of the side of a yacht/mobo, or less than 75' (3 x 25' LWL) of the bows is going to cause concern to the skipper.

But no-one tells the maniacs this...

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[spurnclass]

Re: Now there\'s the rub

Also, what about the risk of the unknown? Obviously its all well and good if experienced dinghy sailors leave a couple of metres between themselves and a yacht and effectively pass. But what if at the moment of the pass an unexpected capsize occurs?? Surely not even the most effective dinghy master will be able to tell you that they are sure to avoid an oncoming collision?



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