steve yates
Well-Known Member
If your still in Suffolk you are welcome on my bradwell, once she is back sailing. ( or anytime on the dock to see the interior size.) I'll prob be in Suffolk in her at some point too.
Dinghy, trailer sailer, yacht?
- Thread starter suffolklass
- Start date
suffolklass
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve, I'm intending to visit my parents in early May so might PM you and come have a look if that's ok!
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I grew up on Swallows and Amazons and sailing, from bouncing my optimist off every moored boat in Loch Tummel aged 4 to my current boat in the Adriatic 40 years later - I've learned not to hit other boats since then too. 
My parents were in a very similar situation to you, we started off with an open boat (Marine Tutor + Seagull Outboard) and a big tent. Summer Holidays were on the Scottish West Coast, Loch Long or inland Loch Tummel. I loved boats and as a kid it really didn't matter if it was a little loch or a big sea, everything was an adventure.
When I was 6 or 7 they bought our first "big boat" - a Kingfisher 20+ (22ft) bought in Kippford on the Solway Firth. It was moved north and berthed in Inverkip Marina - then the adventures really started. Every year 2-3 weeks up the West Coast of Scotland as a family of 5. It was cramped, it was damp, but we didn't care. Almost every weekend (weather permitting) we were exploring the Clyde. We never got further North than the Ardnamurchan Lighthouse but nobody cared.
As a teenager they bought an Albin Vega (27ft), still in the Clyde, and the adventures continued. We went on holiday with another family in a Westerly Centaur.
I left home at 21 and in the meantime they had moved up to a Finnsailer 35.
I got married and started the whole process again with my own children. Started with a laser Pico on Draycote Water (a large puddle), then a Topper for the kids and a Topcat K3 on Ammersee in Bavaria. We chartered alot in Greece, Croatia and were often on my parents boat in Scotland. Then I bought a proper boat in the Med which now lives in Pula and I'll be going sailing with my grown-up boys in a few weeks time.
The only advice I can give is buy what you can afford, the kids will love it anyway.
Don't fret about the ages of the children, just get them used to wearing life-jackets.
Use the cruising grounds and lakes that are close by and everything else will sort itself out.
Expect the kids to lose a bit of interest mid-teens but they'll be back
Happy Sailing !!!
My parents were in a very similar situation to you, we started off with an open boat (Marine Tutor + Seagull Outboard) and a big tent. Summer Holidays were on the Scottish West Coast, Loch Long or inland Loch Tummel. I loved boats and as a kid it really didn't matter if it was a little loch or a big sea, everything was an adventure.
When I was 6 or 7 they bought our first "big boat" - a Kingfisher 20+ (22ft) bought in Kippford on the Solway Firth. It was moved north and berthed in Inverkip Marina - then the adventures really started. Every year 2-3 weeks up the West Coast of Scotland as a family of 5. It was cramped, it was damp, but we didn't care. Almost every weekend (weather permitting) we were exploring the Clyde. We never got further North than the Ardnamurchan Lighthouse but nobody cared.
As a teenager they bought an Albin Vega (27ft), still in the Clyde, and the adventures continued. We went on holiday with another family in a Westerly Centaur.
I left home at 21 and in the meantime they had moved up to a Finnsailer 35.
I got married and started the whole process again with my own children. Started with a laser Pico on Draycote Water (a large puddle), then a Topper for the kids and a Topcat K3 on Ammersee in Bavaria. We chartered alot in Greece, Croatia and were often on my parents boat in Scotland. Then I bought a proper boat in the Med which now lives in Pula and I'll be going sailing with my grown-up boys in a few weeks time.
The only advice I can give is buy what you can afford, the kids will love it anyway.
Don't fret about the ages of the children, just get them used to wearing life-jackets.
Use the cruising grounds and lakes that are close by and everything else will sort itself out.
Expect the kids to lose a bit of interest mid-teens but they'll be back
Happy Sailing !!!
brokethebox
Well-Known Member
I'm going to bump this cause I found it interesting!
I'm in a similar boat, little kids, keen to get something that would let them and us explore and that would keep their interest by not being deathly slow, traditional rig would be good but plastic not wood, 20' ish, day sailer and trailer able like a drascombe I guess.
Any thoughts? I like the Shetland skiff 16, but maybe bigger?
James
I'm in a similar boat, little kids, keen to get something that would let them and us explore and that would keep their interest by not being deathly slow, traditional rig would be good but plastic not wood, 20' ish, day sailer and trailer able like a drascombe I guess.
Any thoughts? I like the Shetland skiff 16, but maybe bigger?
James
Keel
New Member
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What about the Cornish Crabbers "Adventure" series? Same hulls as the gaffers (I think) but proper Bermudan rigs so you have a chance of getting somewhere and back again. The only minor downside is cost: the two closest to your 20 are the ADventure 19 at £34,500 and the Adventure 21 at £48,500. That's two bloody expensive extra feet of LOA ...
lw395
Well-Known Member
Unless you are really driven to a particular type of boat, I would suggest starting with a good look at your local sailing clubs.
My club today, there were several families, young kids in small diinghies like Laser Bug, Topper, Pico. Some older kids racing with their parents.
A bit like Baggywrinkle's experience.
Basically, it's a nice day, you can decide to go for the afternoon or all day, no faffing with trailers, no paying to park, a bit of social, a beer afterwards. Some clubs offer training for kids.
You have to make good use of sailing to get value for money, it's easier to do this if it's not too much hassle.
It's also easier to get value in terms of time sail for the time invested in faffing with boats, trailers, parking etc, if you keep it lightweight and simple and share facilities in a club.
The payback with clubs is that I have to do some 'duties' every year, a few days when I drive the club RIB or run some races. But actually this is not a bad way to spend a Sunday in October or April.
OTOH, some people are happy to buy a boat and only use it a few times a year for holiday week. It's your choice, but I'd look at all the options.
You might go further with a trailer sailer, but my normal time between arriving a my club by pushbike and being on the water is about 40 minutes. It could be a fair bit less, but I like to have a coffee and a chat.
We see a few families turn up at the public slip, always looks quite fraught, Mum struggling to keep young kids safe and not bored while Dad spends ages struggling to launch the boat and recover the trailer on his own, only to reverse the process about 2 hours later. We rarely see the same family back repeatedly.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-Known Member
On the car front, I used to tow a Micro 18 with an 1100cc Golf, S coast to The Lakes. The only problem was, as with any front wheel drive, slipways - so you drag the boat up with the front towing eye.
I now have a 30'6" boat which I tow 70 miles at season's ends with a tired Transit rented with towbar for £50. (I also have a classic Land Rover, but it has to be a very nice day to contemplate towing that slowly).
No need for big car ownership.
I now have a 30'6" boat which I tow 70 miles at season's ends with a tired Transit rented with towbar for £50. (I also have a classic Land Rover, but it has to be a very nice day to contemplate towing that slowly).
No need for big car ownership.
Seajet
...
SuffolkLass,
you could probably get an early or slightly scruffy Anderson 22 for not much money when the time comes, a matter of luck - would definitely fit 2 adults and 2 kids, two at my club have couples with 4 kids !
They are very similar to Jumbleducks' 490 just larger, same designer ( Oliver Lee ) and lift keel, they have a good interior but sail very well - had mine on a drying mooring for 41 years - my proper website was sabotaged but we have a Facebook site for now.
Not suitable for regular towing though, personally I wouldn't even do that with a Leisure 17 or maybe even Drascombe, lots of hassle.
you could probably get an early or slightly scruffy Anderson 22 for not much money when the time comes, a matter of luck - would definitely fit 2 adults and 2 kids, two at my club have couples with 4 kids !
They are very similar to Jumbleducks' 490 just larger, same designer ( Oliver Lee ) and lift keel, they have a good interior but sail very well - had mine on a drying mooring for 41 years - my proper website was sabotaged but we have a Facebook site for now.
Not suitable for regular towing though, personally I wouldn't even do that with a Leisure 17 or maybe even Drascombe, lots of hassle.
ridgy
Well-Known Member
Lw395 has it right and I'm surprised no body else has given better advice. With a very young family I would focus on building your own skills with easy (cheap) options for short trips out with the kids. The thought of driving 2.5 hours to day sail a centaur out of Whitehaven with a 1 year old...it wont happen. Or it might once or twice. The lake district is your friend. Check out ullswater yacht club for sailing and camping adventures for young families
William_H
Well-Known Member
May be I am biassed but I have had my 21ft trailer sailer for 38 years and still love it. I can't imagine why one would buy a heavy open dinghy Drascombe that does not have a cabin and shelter either for tired kids or to camp in. In our younger days we did 4 nights camping with 2 adults and 2 kids. Later a 3 day voyage with 4 adults. It is doable beds are comfortable but space is limited. Yes you need a bigger car to pull it. But you can also moor the boat as i do.
Don't go any smaller. ol'will
Don't go any smaller. ol'will
ProDave
Well-Known Member
That is really the cruiser Vs dinghy argument.
I sail a small cruiser. I turn up at the harbour, withing 10 minutes we can be on our way and another 5 the sails up.
I was watching the dinghy racing at the club last weekend (my wife was sailing in a dinghy) Half an hour to rig the boat, half an hour to squeeze yourself into a wetsuit, drag ghe boat down the slipway and launch and go sailing. Repeat process on the way back in, except add hosing down the boat and trolley. And all the time you are out a much less stable boat with no protection.
Sorry you won't convince me to sail anything other than a cruiser with a cabin and decent ballast, Capsizing is not something I expect a sailing boat to do.
Seajet
...
Capsizing is no problem as long as the boat is suitable - a Drascombe isn't, or for swamping either which combined with poor sailing characteristics ( decent not racing performance can often be a primary safety aid ) which is why I would not be a fan of a Drascombe or any open boat for use at sea by the OP and her family - Swallows and Amazons stuff on a lake by all means, otherwise like others I think a small cruiser a much safer and more enjoyable way to go.
lw395
Well-Known Member
It takes only a few minutes to rig a dinghy and put on a wetsuit.
But equally I know a good few people who go the 'cruiser moored ready to go' route.
It's fine, but it involves a financial commitment.
Plus a time commitment in winter maintenance.
I don't see those as problems, just things to be realistic about.
The trailer-sailer thing seems to only work well for certain cases.
I would not advocate it without proper consideration of the downsides, but that's true of any boat ownership.
suffolklass
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to me or James? I was the OP, not sure if you saw my later posts... Basically I was planning for a few years down the line, not now! I think I said in one of my posts that I need them to be a bit older before we try any sort of Irish Sea adventures. However I have to say it... I'm just not a fan of dinghy sailing. Just doesn't do it for me.
At the moment we have an ancient Mirror dinghy which I and husband sail - haven't ventured taking the kids on there yet, when they're a little older they will learn on it like I did when I was a child! The club we're members of has lots of children's programmes as well. I was more asking about when they're older as I want to take them on longer sails and don't want to spend my whole time pottering around a reservoir, however large! The Lakes is still very much in contention when they're still relatively young, but eventual aim for us is to do some proper exploring. West Coast of Scotland is the dream area although we'd probably keep a yacht at Whitehaven or similar for shorter trips.
This thread was really useful because it gave us lots of options to look at - think our conclusion was that when we're ready to get away from the reservoir and take the kids further afield we will look at first getting a smaller 'trailable' yacht (not a trailer-sailer, we'd keep it in one place and only occasionally move it somewhere else). Ullswater or Coniston initially, maybe with a couple of trips further afield (with parents in Suffolk it would be rude not to take it down there I think!). Then when we're ready for big sea adventures (which we will be, it's the whole appeal of sailing for me) we'd move onto something like a Centaur (or whatever the equivalent is that we can afford when we get there - this might be 10 years away, who knows).
Seajet, thanks for the Anderson suggestion - we were thinking lighter than that though. Probably no more than about 800kg, which rules out most of the larger boats. Something like a Prelude or a Manta 19 - that way when we add on engine and all other tat you end up packing on we still won't kill a tow limit on most sizeable family cars!
Anyway, sounds like James is looking for something a bit faster and more open than we are - best of luck finding something! Let us know what you decide in the end!
Slinky Spring
Well-Known Member
I haven't read all the responses to this but I would commend Coniston sailing club for your consideration. Very friendly club. Junior training. Dinghy storage. Cruiser moorings. Bar, showers etc. Adjacent campsite. Added bonus is the lake is limited to 26ft so if you ever get your Centaur you will have the biggest(if not newest)boat on the lake. Lots of other kids. Temporary membership is available and encouraged. Come over and visit for a weekend. Camp at Coniston hall campsite. Leave the mirror at the club during your stay.
www.conistonsailingclub.co.uk
www.conistonsailingclub.co.uk
stevebrassett
Well-Known Member
Swallow yachts make some nice trailer-sailors. Water ballast, so they tow well, and carbon masts make them easy to rig. Too expensive for me, but their website fuels many a daydream.
suffolklass
Well-Known Member
Sorry to resurrect a long-dead thread but I hate it when I read a thread like this and don't know what decisions were made so I thought I'd just quickly update with what we decided in the end.
Having said we'd have to wait until our car packed up, we actually ended up replacing it over the summer with a bigger one. We still have the dinghy at a local club but have also bought a Manta 19 on a lightweight trailer - ok to tow although not something we want to do too often! Sadly we bought her in early Feb, planned to do a couple of things to fit her out for sailing with young kids, left her in a caravan park for a bit while we sorted all that out, then lockdown. Eventual aim is to get a mooring on Coniston and have occasional trips elsewhere rather than trailer-sailing on a regular basis.
In the very much longer term, as our children get bigger, we're expecting to upsize both our boat and our sailing ambitions so will eventually end up with a larger yacht (Centaur- or if we're very lucky and save like crazy even Konsort-sized) on the coast somewhere (probably Whitehaven - living far away means that marina access at most states of the tide becomes very desirable) and hopefully some summer cruises around Wales, Ireland, IoM and of course the West coast of Scotland. But for now I think we've made the right decision for a very young family to have some fun on the water! Our nearly 4yo is already very excited about sailing our own boat and doing some camping on board; whether that's this year or next depends on circumstances beyond our control...
Thanks to everyone who shared their advice and experiences, it was really helpful in clarifying what we wanted.
Having said we'd have to wait until our car packed up, we actually ended up replacing it over the summer with a bigger one. We still have the dinghy at a local club but have also bought a Manta 19 on a lightweight trailer - ok to tow although not something we want to do too often! Sadly we bought her in early Feb, planned to do a couple of things to fit her out for sailing with young kids, left her in a caravan park for a bit while we sorted all that out, then lockdown. Eventual aim is to get a mooring on Coniston and have occasional trips elsewhere rather than trailer-sailing on a regular basis.
In the very much longer term, as our children get bigger, we're expecting to upsize both our boat and our sailing ambitions so will eventually end up with a larger yacht (Centaur- or if we're very lucky and save like crazy even Konsort-sized) on the coast somewhere (probably Whitehaven - living far away means that marina access at most states of the tide becomes very desirable) and hopefully some summer cruises around Wales, Ireland, IoM and of course the West coast of Scotland. But for now I think we've made the right decision for a very young family to have some fun on the water! Our nearly 4yo is already very excited about sailing our own boat and doing some camping on board; whether that's this year or next depends on circumstances beyond our control...
Thanks to everyone who shared their advice and experiences, it was really helpful in clarifying what we wanted.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update. It's always nice to hear the outcome of a thread.
Incidentally, I wouldn't rule out a tidal or semi-tidal mooring. We lived a couple of hours from our boat for several years and the tidal mooring was rarely an issue. I would, however, suggest pontoon access with young children. If a couple of adults grind to a halt a few yards from the boat, it's embarrassing. Add a couple of tired kids and, well, no thanks...
Incidentally, I wouldn't rule out a tidal or semi-tidal mooring. We lived a couple of hours from our boat for several years and the tidal mooring was rarely an issue. I would, however, suggest pontoon access with young children. If a couple of adults grind to a halt a few yards from the boat, it's embarrassing. Add a couple of tired kids and, well, no thanks...
