Dinghy Cruising Boat Choice for Novice Sailor

[gregmartin]

Hello Everyone,

My wife and I and kids intend to do some costal cruising around wales next year and I'm looking for a suitable boat which I can practise with and get used to before leaving the comfort of a lake or similar.

I'm guessing on what questions to ask, but can anyone tell me what Dinghy / Sail Boat would fit this sort of list?

- A large/medium dinghy, I'm guessing between 15 and 18 foot? Which is friendly enough for a first year novice to take around the coast of Wales.

- Stable and unlikey to capsize in normal conditions ( If there are clouds looking angry, we'd stay on the shore! ).

- I doubt my wife will fancy leaning over the edge. So sharpe turns and speed is not something we're bothered about, just tootling along nicely will do.

- We want to go along stretches of the coast, camping in the evenings, so enough space to put our camping gear on board.

- Can be pulled on a car trailer with a small car.

- An outboard option for when if we get stuck with no wind, and more importantly a little more control so we don't bump into people if we go in a harbour.

- Something that is as cheap as possible to moor in a marina or harbour ( some costs seem high per foot of boat).

- Any good books we should read on the subject? I've looked at a few websites http://www.btinternet.com/~sail/cruising.htm is a good one, but more info the better.

I've looked at the Wayfarer, Mirror 16, siren ( bit too heavy ) and some others. It's now getting pretty confusing. Also, I think I'd want to buy second hand for the first season. In case my kids hate it!!!

We're all taking lessons at the moment at the local boat club and we have a holiday in Greece for a sailing course.

Thanks in advance for an advice and tips
Greg

 

[TQA]

Have you seen this website http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm

I went through some of the same decision makng process some years ago and finished up with a Jaguar 22 N.B.it is JUST possible to launch, rig, derig, and recover single handed.

I decided on something with a lid on it after having dreams of dinghy camping around Mull only to be reminded of the west coast holiday where it rained everyday, not all day every day but for the whole of August it rained every day.

Hence the lid.

I did have a good look at a Wayfarer and decided one would be a definite maybe. Sails very well and there is lots of info on how to rig one for cruising, N.B. mind you it is a spartan existance esp. if it rains solid for days at a time!

 

[gregmartin]

Have you seen this website http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm

I went through some of the same decision makng process some years ago and finished up with a Jaguar 22.....

I decided on something with a lid on it after having dreams of dinghy camping around Mull only to be reminded of the west coast holiday where it rained everyday.....

I did have a good look at a Wayfarer and decided one would be a definite maybe. Sails very well and there is lots of info on how to rig one for cruising, N.B. mind you it is a spartan existance esp. if it rains solid for days at a time!

Thanks for looking and answering!

I did look at the Jaguar because of the stability, but then realised I'd have nowhere to moor it between holidays. Preston Marina near me charges £172.00 per metre per year and my car is only a Citreon C1 so I'm a little worried everyone would be out of the car pushing up hills I think that's why I'm slowly concluding that a dinghy would have to be the way to go initially.

I was originally looking at Folkboats, but for the same reason of cost when not in use, seemed to make this an expensive way to cruise, well for me at least.

I love the look of the Wayfarer, though what put me off the WayFarer slightly was the comment on the cruising site you mention along the lines of .... "Capsize practice would be prudent!..."....meeh.

What would concern me with capsizing is not the getting wet ( though it would be annoying), it's everything getting ruined in the boat when it falls out...sleeping bags and the like.

 

[sarabande]

Wayfarers are wonderful cruising dinghies ! Had two over the years, but now, sadly, sold.

There are models which are fully kitted out for cruising with tent and extra storage.

Have you seen the Wayfarer GB site ?
http://www.wayfarer.org.uk/


It includes the current ones for sale.

 

[monkey_trousers]

Wayfarers are a great starter boat, but if budget permits, a drascombe maybe, bit bigger, but very seaworthy, comfy and roomy, pretty easy to sail.

wish I still had mine!

 

[tonijon]

I agree with having a drascombe as well.
With your comment about Wayfarers you would have to do something really silly to capsize them in my experiance also why not keep the majority of yoy gear in dry bags attached to the boat.
Have you though about a wharmman cat sailed one in Zimbabwe years ago great little boats.
Yacht clubs quite often have reasonble moorings (sure they are swinging moorings but some clubs have stewards who will take you to and from the mooring) and winter storage on the hard included in the membership.

 

[gregmartin]

I agree with having a drascombe as well.
With your comment about Wayfarers you would have to do something really silly to capsize them in my experiance also why not keep the majority of yoy gear in dry bags attached to the boat.
Have you though about a wharmman cat sailed one in Zimbabwe years ago great little boats.
Yacht clubs quite often have reasonble moorings (sure they are swinging moorings but some clubs have stewards who will take you to and from the mooring) and winter storage on the hard included in the membership.

Some great info. Could I just tag a general comment here, I've made no comment on a wayfarer capsizing, it's taken from this site http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm about training for it!

Some good tips though, I'll look for dry bags and look up on the wharmman for sure.

 

[gregmartin]

They look a lovely boat. Though, like you indicate...expensive.

 

[Ubergeekian]

As a dinghy for your purpose, I don't think you could beat a Wayfarer. For something a little more sophisticated, what about a Hunter 490. It's the same length as a Wayfarer, to within an inch, but has a small cabin and a lifting steel daggerboard with a cast iron bulb on the bottom, so very uncapsizeable. Designed by Oliver Lee, sails delightfully.

I have one, acquired from my father, which I was going to sell but I like it so much I have decided to keep it for day sailing on the local freshwater loch. Here she is

 

[TQA]

Citroen C1 eh! well the Jaguar is out then.

I asked the couple who gave me trial sail in the Wayfarer if they had ever capsized it and they said no not even close and muttered something about racing loons.

 

[gregmartin]

Citroen C1 eh! well the Jaguar is out then.

I asked the couple who gave me trial sail in the Wayfarer if they had ever capsized it and they said no not even close and muttered something about racing loons.

Thanks for checking that for me. I'm just started a book by Margaret Dye on the subject of cruising ( it's a little out of date ), and she mentions in here that racers will rarely reef in strong winds, so I suppose that is where the capsize possibility comes into play.

 

[gregmartin]

As a dinghy for your purpose, I don't think you could beat a Wayfarer. For something a little more sophisticated, what about a Hunter 490. It's the same length as a Wayfarer, to within an inch, but has a small cabin and a lifting steel daggerboard with a cast iron bulb on the bottom, so very uncapsizeable. Designed by Oliver Lee, sails delightfully.

I have one, acquired from my father, which I was going to sell but I like it so much I have decided to keep it for day sailing on the local freshwater loch. Here she is

That's a lovely boat! And looking at the tech spec it's idea for what I want. I'll have a look at some second hand prices.

I've also looked at a scandinavian double ender. Though if it comes down to it, and despite the previous post, I will seriously look at the wayfarer, there are some good second hand bargains on them.

http://www.caleyboats.co.uk/275/Sail-Craft-for-Sale/Double-End-Scandinavian-Gaff-Cutter

 

[gregmartin]

Thanks sara. The wayfarer is certainly not off my list, as it so well used for it and seems to have a great following.

Unfortunately, to ask any questions in the wayfarer forum you have to be a paid member of the association, so I wasn't able to ask questions about the boat with other owners on the site itself.

 

[gjgm]

I would suggest downplaying your ambitions. Every boat is a compromise, but the more multipurpose you try to make it, its quite possible you would be better keeping it simple.
When you suggest boating around the Welsh coast, I assume you mean towing to different locations, rather than piling four into a tiny dinghy and setting off with limited experience? If so, then your car is the first limiting feature. Dont forget that boat +trailer+gear+outboard is rapidly going to get heavy.
While the idea of setting off in your boat and camping along the way, could be done, I would suggest getting some day sailing under your belt, and experiencing different seas,winds and conditions might be best. Wet, cold and tired kids...?If I can remind you, Uk isnt blessed with long warm and sunny seasons; in fact I would say we only get a few perfect w/e days a year. So dinghy sailing is going to cool to cold and quite possibly wet.
So I would choose something like like a standard Wayfarer; its popular,easy to find a reasonable one,easy to sell again. You ll have plenty of fun on the water sailing and motoring,only on good days- but you wont be going very far. Just remember you only need to scare one child once, and boating is over as a family.
If you have a great first season, you can get more ambitious,wonder about other boats etc, consider what you might like to do next.
But starting out, keep it simple,make sure the family is safe, and choose the good days.

 

[gregmartin]

I would suggest downplaying your ambitions. Every boat is a compromise, but the more multipurpose you try to make it, its quite possible you would be better keeping it simple.
When you suggest boating around the Welsh coast, I assume you mean towing to different locations, rather than piling four into a tiny dinghy and setting off with limited experience? If so, then your car is the first limiting feature. Dont forget that boat +trailer+gear+outboard is rapidly going to get heavy.
While the idea of setting off in your boat and camping along the way, could be done, I would suggest getting some day sailing under your belt, and experiencing different seas,winds and conditions might be best. Wet, cold and tired kids...?If I can remind you, Uk isnt blessed with long warm and sunny seasons; in fact I would say we only get a few perfect w/e days a year. So dinghy sailing is going to cool to cold and quite possibly wet.
So I would choose something like like a standard Wayfarer; its popular,easy to find a reasonable one,easy to sell again. You ll have plenty of fun on the water sailing and motoring,only on good days- but you wont be going very far. Just remember you only need to scare one child once, and boating is over as a family.
If you have a great first season, you can get more ambitious,wonder about other boats etc, consider what you might like to do next.
But starting out, keep it simple,make sure the family is safe, and choose the good days.

Some good advice. Thanks! Not sure how we intend to do it yet, as we're looking at all the options. And it depends how competent/confident we all become by next summer and how much sail time we get at the boat club we've joined. My intention is to also sail at sea myself, in something small, and understand how the skills and "feel" will differ from a lake.

 

[Ubergeekian]

That's a lovely boat! And looking at the tech spec it's idea for what I want. I'll have a look at some second hand prices.

I always like the look of the 490, but was fairly neutral until I started sailing it. The handling is just gorgeous - absolutely perfectly balanced, responsive without being twitchy - and that nice big keel is very reassuring. If you can get to SW Scotland sometime you are very welcome to come for a sail on Duckling - just PM me.

 

[Lakesailor]

my car is only a Citreon C1

From the Witter Towbars website

Sorry, your vehicle does not have the capability to tow.

 

[RIB_imposter]

my car is only a Citreon C1 so I'm a little worried everyone would be out of the car pushing up hills I think that's why I'm slowly concluding that a dinghy would have to be the way to go initially.

As Lakesailer says you can''t fit a tow bar, and even if you could you would struggle with most of the larger cruising dinghies. Even the C2 can only tow about 450kg, which probably rules out some of the heavier options.

I love the look of the Wayfarer, though what put me off the WayFarer slightly was the comment on the cruising site you mention along the lines of .... "Capsize practice would be prudent!..."....meeh.

I've cruised wayfarers. It is quite difficult to accidentally capsize one. regardless of which boat you end up with you do need practice capsize recovery though as **** happens. Always assume the boat will get swamped or capsize so everything is tied on and important stuff kept in water tight bags/containers. Storage arrangements on Wayfaeres are not bad so even after a capsize most stuff should still be in place.

Thanks for checking that for me. I'm just started a book by Margaret Dye on the subject of cruising ( it's a little out of date ),

good you've got the book - that is an invaluable starting point

I've been in your shoes in the past and may end up in them again in the future. Here would be my starting list, with a few comments:

Wayfarer - can't go wrong with one, sought after so keep value, plenty around so should be able to find one (and get spare sails/masts etc if required). Big - so good for a family, but harder to handle on your own if you might want to.

Wanderer - like a slightly smaller wayfarer, harder to find, but build for the job.

Topper Cruz - (with the twin mast (Ketch) rig). This would probably be my preference for a lightweight boat. Designed with this in mind. Quite rare. No booms so ideal with kids on board.

Hunter (20?) - generally overpriced IMHO - but the boat is ideal!

Drascombe - slow and steady - an ideal boat for pottering, you REALLY will struggle to capsize one of these. But they are heavy and probably a problem for you to tow.

There are other boats which are possibilites, e.g. Laser Stratos, GP14, etc. They aren't really cruising boats - but are suited to the task,

If I had to go and buy one today it would be either the Drascombe or the Cruz depending on various factors like budget, tow car, mood, storage (people happily leave drascombe's on moorings - the cruz may not be so good for this on a long term basis), etc. Whatever I bought would be GRP as you want to spend your time sailing not painting!

Finally just a quick word of warning, there is no quicker way to reduce your "permitted sailing time" that to scare the bejesus out the wife and kids - so in addition to the training you are doing, see if you can get some specific training in cruising at sea (what used to be RYA dinghy level 5 would be ideal, but a day with an instructor planning and executing a long day sail would be great) involve the others in this too so you are not just dragging them along. I'd also suggest when you come to plan your trip it needs to be infinitely flexible to allow for broken gear, **** weather, no wind, etc.

 

[westernman]

Take a look at a National 18.
Heavyish, big, but still a dinghy and a good sail.

 

[chrisedwards]

Hello Everyone,

My wife and I and kids intend to do some costal cruising around wales next year and I'm looking for a suitable boat which I can practise with and get used to before leaving the comfort of a lake or similar.

I'm guessing on what questions to ask, but can anyone tell me what Dinghy / Sail Boat would fit this sort of list?

- A large/medium dinghy, I'm guessing between 15 and 18 foot? Which is friendly enough for a first year novice to take around the coast of Wales.

- Stable and unlikey to capsize in normal conditions ( If there are clouds looking angry, we'd stay on the shore! ).

- I doubt my wife will fancy leaning over the edge. So sharpe turns and speed is not something we're bothered about, just tootling along nicely will do.

- We want to go along stretches of the coast, camping in the evenings, so enough space to put our camping gear on board.

- Can be pulled on a car trailer with a small car.

- An outboard option for when if we get stuck with no wind, and more importantly a little more control so we don't bump into people if we go in a harbour.

- Something that is as cheap as possible to moor in a marina or harbour ( some costs seem high per foot of boat).

- Any good books we should read on the subject? I've looked at a few websites http://www.btinternet.com/~sail/cruising.htm is a good one, but more info the better.

I've looked at the Wayfarer, Mirror 16, siren ( bit too heavy ) and some others. It's now getting pretty confusing. Also, I think I'd want to buy second hand for the first season. In case my kids hate it!!!

We're all taking lessons at the moment at the local boat club and we have a holiday in Greece for a sailing course.

Thanks in advance for an advice and tips
Greg

There is only one true cruising dinghy and I have sailed one for years - the ROAMER - it does not capsize nor flood. - rather like lifeboats it has a fore and stern "castle" putting buoyancy so high that capsize forces are resisted by righting forces. The floor is above sea level so shipped water merely drains out. It is fast and designed to sleep in. Fantastic chines mean you can stand on the side decks! - on a fourteen foot boat. Because it does all these things -and many more - just for me I think it looks beautiful. (my wife is beautiful too!) Visit the Dinghy Cruising Assocation - on line.

Dinghy cruising is wonderful - please keep to your original designs.