Dinghy Choice

[thiswayup]

My apologies if this is in the incorrect forum, I have only just joined! I would really appreciate some advice regarding the purchase of a sailing dinghy for my wife and myself. I will endeavour not to bore you all with my background but hopefully I can provide enough information for someone to give me some useful pointers. I passed my RYA level1 and 2 dinghy sailing many years ago on a Wayfarer but have since pretty much only sailed catamarans (F18, Dart 18 and Tornado). I sailed these with my son who has now dropped out of the picture (babies!). Consequently I am looking for a dinghy to sail with my wife. She has sailed before but is pretty inexperienced. We will be sailing predominately on a river.. We are pretty heavy (to many cakes) about 175KG total crew weight and getting on a bit (I am 56!). Not to worried about racing but coming from catamarans would like something that is not to slow. Obvious choice is a Wayfarer but the slipway is quite steep and my back not as good as it used to be so the weight might be an issue. Also looked at the Osprey, looks nice but not sure if it will be stable enough for the wife (or me to be honest!), looks quite nippy though and nice and roomy. Wanderer might be a bit small for our plus size frames!! Enterprise looks promising but some have said it is a bit unstable and we are on top end of crew weight. GP14 also an obvious one but these seem to be mainly wood and I have never own wood boat so no idea about repair. As you can see I am totally lost on what to get so please jump in with some suggestions, still like the look of the osprey so need help before I make any wrong choices. Thanks for any advice, it will be much appreciate.

 

[GrandadPig]

My apologies if this is in the incorrect forum, I have only just joined! I would really appreciate some advice regarding the purchase of a sailing dinghy for my wife and myself. I will endeavour not to bore you all with my background but hopefully I can provide enough information for someone to give me some useful pointers. I passed my RYA level1 and 2 dinghy sailing many years ago on a Wayfarer but have since pretty much only sailed catamarans (F18, Dart 18 and Tornado). I sailed these with my son who has now dropped out of the picture (babies!). Consequently I am looking for a dinghy to sail with my wife. She has sailed before but is pretty inexperienced. We will be sailing predominately on a river.. We are pretty heavy (to many cakes) about 175KG total crew weight and getting on a bit (I am 56!). Not to worried about racing but coming from catamarans would like something that is not to slow. Obvious choice is a Wayfarer but the slipway is quite steep and my back not as good as it used to be so the weight might be an issue. Also looked at the Osprey, looks nice but not sure if it will be stable enough for the wife (or me to be honest!), looks quite nippy though and nice and roomy. Wanderer might be a bit small for our plus size frames!! Enterprise looks promising but some have said it is a bit unstable and we are on top end of crew weight. GP14 also an obvious one but these seem to be mainly wood and I have never own wood boat so no idea about repair. As you can see I am totally lost on what to get so please jump in with some suggestions, still like the look of the osprey so need help before I make any wrong choices. Thanks for any advice, it will be much appreciate.

can not offer any real advice but I owned a mk2 Wayfarer many years ago and crewed a friends Wanderer. Honestly, there is plenty of room for two, my friend was well over 6’ and I was not exactly lightweight. In fact we often sailed 3 up and never felt cramped. Lovely sailing boats, Wanderers.

 

[SimonKNZ]

My wife and I used to sail a Comet Trio in the UK - lovely boats, and a slightly upgraded version is now being made:
Exciting times for the Comet Trio
Would quite like one over here in NZ

 

[ashtead]

Have you considered sailing in a Heron ? Nice and safe . Or Buy a 18ft club boat and keep on a mooring -would be solid wood -guess it depends where you plan to sail from though.

 

[Praxinoscope]

There are plenty of GRP GP-14 around, probably more than wooden, they are fairly roomy, sail well, but again fairly heavy for pulling up and down the slip, not sure how the weight compares with a wayfarer but I would gues they are lighter.

P.S.
Just looked up specs and I think the GP14 is about 30kg lighter than a Wafarer.

 

[Beelzebub]

The Osprey is a great sea boat with sparkling performance. Of course you have to decide whether you want a trapeze boat but all the catamarans that you list have trapezes so I assume that is OK.

Another option may be the Fireball which also has great performance, is stable and with a smaller sail area than that of the Osprey, is ideal for female sailors too. Fireballs are found all over the country so if racing is your intention, it will be easy to find competition.

I spent many years in my teens racing Enterprises and I still recall all those horrifying death rolls on a run in breezy conditions! On the other hand they punched above their weight in light winds.

Perhaps you can find owners of candidate boats to take you out in them so that you can gain a practical idea of their suitablity?

Good luck!

 

[thiswayup]

Thanks for the suggestions. I had not thought of the fireball so will also have a look at that. Can’t afford new I’m afraid, looking for something under 4K really. A friend recommended the miracle which is evidently only 59KG! How do they get it so light! Trouble is finding one.

 

[Farmer Piles]

Just sold a GRP GP14 that was left here at the farm. Looked a really nice roomy boat and nice nice hull shape. easy to handle too, not heavy. I would go for that or a Wayfarer I think.

 

[ashtead]

The downside with a fireball is when you have any degree of wavelets but maybe the idea is inland sailing. I have sailed one across Solent but only on calm days and I would much prefer to be out in the Wayfarer if sailing for any length of time.

 

[thiswayup]

Seems not to be much choice of second hand dinghies in my area. I think possibly one of the following would be good.
Laser 2000
Enterprise
GP14
Wayfarer
Thanks

 

[Kelpie]

I've got both a Wayfarer and a Wanderer. Horses for courses. The bigger boat is what you want to be in when the waves get bigger, but the wee boat is much easier to handle on the slipway and in smooth water is a good stable platform for pottering around.
You can do quite a lot to make life easier- a good jockey wheel, a winch, etc. See how people trail and launch RIBs which are far heavier than any sailing dinghy.

There are a lot of lighter boats out there though. Kestrel probably worth a look, but I've not sailed one myself.

 

[thiswayup]

Hi thanks for the information. I did think about the wanderer but a lot of people said the difference in weight between it and the wayfarer was not worth the loss in stability and performance. It seems odd most new dinghies are plastic. Is something like the rs quest or vision worth considering? Surely modern design must have improved or are the old ones still leading the way ie is the laser 2000 better than a Enterprise? Also I do not really want a boat that needs lots of work doing.

 

[Medway Matt]

Hi thanks for the information. I did think about the wanderer but a lot of people said the difference in weight between it and the wayfarer was not worth the loss in stability and performance. It seems odd most new dinghies are plastic. Is something like the rs quest or vision worth considering? Surely modern design must have improved or are the old ones still leading the way ie is the laser 2000 better than a Enterprise? Also I do not really want a boat that needs lots of work doing.

I cannot recommend that you avoid the RS Vision enough, it's a terrible boat. The helm is very heavy, not weather or lee helm, it's just heavy, the plastic they're made from splits and has to be welded to repair so not a DIY job, you'll slide around the deck and gunwale and the boat will want to slide off its trolley when you pull it up the beach, which is clearly annoying. And yet, despite this slipperyness, the boat seems to develop huge amounts of drag when underway.

You can probably tell from this that I don't like the Vision and doubt you will either.

 

[oldbloke]

I think it is easy to overthink this. A bit like agonising over the differences between an Astra and a Focus .
Having said that ....
Rotomolded boats are cheap and easy to make. They are popular with the manufacturers and establishments that buy them by the yard ,but don't seem to give a long term satisfaction.
As a generalisation heavy = stable = pain to handle on land. You just need to work out where you are on that curve.
Ent v 2000, I don't think that one is better than the other, but they are very different.
The Ent is rounded, with narrower ends, it is much more rewarding in lighter winds and restricted waters. The 2000 is straighter and flatter with a wide waterline beam. It is much more stable. In light airs and confined waters it is glued to the spot. However in a breeze on open water it lumbers into action and eventually is pretty rapid.

 

[Farmer Piles]

Depending on your finances, but none of the boats on your shortlist are dear secondhand. Buy whichever comes along first and change it if you are not happy with it and a different one turns up for sale. Or even buy a couple of different boats if they come up for sale if you can store them and sell the least favourite. I doubt that you will lose money in the process if you buy at the right price.
Just an idea.

 

[thiswayup]

Thanks for all your assistance. I think I have narrowed it down to three potential boats. The Wayfarer keeps coming up in top spot. I really like the weight and river sailing credentials of the Enterprise but am a bit worried if it will be stable enough for the wife. Finally there is the Wanderer, bit lighter than the Wayfarer, kind of in the middle. Does anyone know how these three compare in terms of speed? Thanks

 

[Medway Matt]

On a more positive note from me;

The Osprey is a real thoroughbred, fast and powerful without being looney, well balanced and quite stable as they're beamy. Their only drawback is that they're heavyish at 134 kg.

The Miracle isn't particularly fast but it's light, nimble and fun. It also makes a cracking single handed for sturdy folk, I sailed one when I couldn't use my Contender for a while and I didn't feel short changed, three sailing it was a hoot although I was a bit overpowered up wind at times. You may find it a bit small for two full sized adults, though I've sailed one with a 6'4" 100 kg mate and it wasn't too bad.

The 59er is fun but the assymetric kite is huge and they can be handful. They're also pretty rare.

The Hornet's a lovely boat, I had one for about 10 years, fast, lively and well balanced but quite tippy. A thoroughbred like the Osprey, they're both sailed by a fair number of mixed crews.

Other boats to consider may be the Tasar, RS400, Merlin Rocket or B14 but as I haven't sailed any of these I can't comment on them.

 

[MADRIGAL]

I am would cast my vote for the Wayfarer every time, although Dancrane of this forum has vast experience singehanding his Osprey in the Solent, launching/recovering her with a trolley, and would likely comment quite favourably on the Osprey. Incidentally, the Osprey, Wayfarer, and Wander share the same pedigree, all being stable, double-chined hulls from the drawing board of the late Ian Proctor. An advantage of this type of boat is that they are designed for both cruising and racing (UKWA runs an extensive race programme), so there is room to store the kit that two people would want even on a day sail: rain gear, drinking water, a flask of tea (and another one for milk) lunch, anchor, etc. The same might be said for the GP 14, but you would want the bigger boats for cruising at sea. I would be afraid of loosing things out the open transom of an RS Quest. A friend in my club sold one because she felt it was more suited to racing than day sailing. I would also stay away from anything with a round-bottom hull, which makes a boat inherently unstable. A chap at our club capsized his Albacore at the pontoon because he forgot to lower his centre plate as soon as he stepped in!

I have the advantage of being able to use a car and road trailer on our club's launching
slip, so singlehanded recovery of a Wayfarer is no problem for this 60+ sailor with bad knees.

[/QUOTE]

 

[thiswayup]

Many thanks for all of your suggestions, they are much appreciated. So, after much deliberation I still need some urgent help! I decided to look for either a Wayfarer or Wanderer. The choice is difficult because I can get a Wayfarer World OR a Hartley Wanderer. The Hartley wanderer is obviously newer and Hartley arE supposed to have improved the design significantly. The weight difference might not be too important as the club has a winch. So should I buy the older Wayfarer World or the newer Hartley Wanderer. Unfortunately I can’t afford a Hartley Wayfarer and there rarely seems to be any for sale. All suggestions and input would be much appreciate. Is the Wayfarer world a good boat or the the Hartley Wanderer better! Thanks

 

[westernman]

If you are coming from a catamaran, you will be very disappointed in the performance of a Wayfarer. And most non extreme, non foiling dinghies. And finding a suitable foiler for 175 kg is not going to happen.

Why not something like a Hobiecat Tiger? Top speed 24 knots.

They are sturdy, easy enough to manage both on the shore with Cat Trax and on the water, and are ideal or an inexperienced crew (but the helm needs to know what he is doing). 175kg crew weight? No problem.