Diesel heater

[ChromeDome]

Unfortunately there are two "CE" markings: The EU CE one and "China Export" - they are not the same

CE marking and the Chinese Export logo | CE Marking Association

How to distinguish CE Marking symbol vs China Export symbol? — ADA

Typical Chinese.

They don't give a f@rt about rights and obligations if they can make money.
However, the EU defined marking must be the only one accepted by EU (and others who play by the same notes ..)

 

[lustyd]

Slightly racist. China makes what the West wants, as would any nation hoping to compete. The number of people here buying them suggests there is a huge market.

 

[superheat6k]

There’s a supply/demand issue that pushed the price up because some import checks identified that (at least some of) the CE marks/paperwork /documentation was not up to scratch. It’s very easy to put a CE mark (or the new UKCA mark) on a product. That doesn’t mean it actually conforms to the requirements.

I suppose the follow up response here is: I do not particularly care.

... (Sits back and awaits bullets !)

 

[ylop]

I suppose the follow up response here is: I do not particularly care.

... (Sits back and awaits bullets !)

Ultimately as I bought and fitted one, and having seen it’s instruction manual have no doubt that the technical file would not meet the CE marking requirements, you can probably conclude that I don’t particularly care either.

my comment was really for people who say “well it’s CE marked”, my challenge is: and what does that mean in this particular case? Most likely that they can use copy n paste. It possibly means there are versions around which are compliant with the relevant regulations. They may even be of the same design - they may not be the same materials, assembly processes or tested rigorously. So cheap it’s easy to conclude that doesn’t matter - provided it doesn’t leak CO into the cabin or start a fire. If there weren’t so many generally happy chinaspacher users I’d be less happy.

on a wider point I do care - I work in a world where we jump through major regulatory hassles to get stuff CE and UKCA marked. I expect the authorities to make it a level playing field by ensuring that anyone else selling here has to jump through the same hoops to maintain product safety and support their product claims.

 

[ChromeDome]

..ensuring that anyone else selling here has to jump through the same hoops to maintain product safety and support their product claims.

Doesn't really seem so, does it?

 

[lustyd]

I expect the authorities to make it a level playing field by ensuring that anyone else selling here has to jump through the same hoops to maintain product safety and support their product claims.

you can’t have it both ways. If you want CE marking you need to pay. You’ve clearly chosen cheap and not marked. China produce Eberspachers too, you could have bought one and supported the marking schemes but you didn’t. Simple conclusion is you don’t actually want a level playing field, only when it suits you.

 

[oldgit]

We never saw the occupants aboard the whole time we were there, but the heater appeared to be on a timer and made a not especially loud but very penetrating, irritating and intrusive constant roar/whine whenever it was on. Especially noticeable in the evenings/nights. Decidedly antisocial.

.......and some on board generators as well , perhaps not that noticeable to those inside the boat responsible but to anybody nearbye rather annoying .
Perfectly understandable if somebody is charging batteries etc but please turn off once the kettle is boiled or the water tank is hot ?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

There’s s long list of marina annoyances. Heating and diesel generators are only recently so widespread. Wind generators and rattling halyards and gear are still top of my list. We avoid marinas as much as possible.

 

[oldgit]

. Wind generators and rattling halyards and gear are still top of my list. We avoid marinas as much as possible.

Living opposite a small boatyard, listening to the wind whistle through rigging and halyards on a winters night , can be quite soporific ,when muffled by double glazing and a duvet.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not so good when you’re 10ft from it with just 6mm of Perspex to shield you.

 

[Fire99]

I have two Chinese 5kw heaters and they are very good. In comparison I also have an old Eberspacher D5lc which in some ways is built like a tank but circuit boards, ecu's etc are problematic to say the least.
Back to the Chinese ones. They do vary a little. I have two Triclicks ones and the 18month old one needed a new head sensor for about a fiver after a solid part-time live-aboard of 18 months. Now, the exhaust is the old Eberspacher one with a decent quality skin fitting so that is worth spending a few quid on. If you buy a heater with the white hard plastic fuel lines (instead of the green squeezy ones) they are perfectly fine, along with the fuel filter, pump etc. All do the job great. I'd invest in some stainless steel jubilee clips but other than that you are good to go.
There are two body sizes. 2kw and 5kw. I think the 5kw is an almost direct copy of an Eberspacher D4. Despite a few people saying to the contrary, Ignore the 8kw thing. They are 5kw. The bodies, fans, fuel pumps are identical. You can go into advanced settings on many and up the maximum pump speed so you can get extra heat out of it but there is no 8kw specific heater. (The likes of Planar / Autoterm, their 6kw (8D) and 8kw (9D) are much bigger physical bodies).

If you have a modicum of common sense and a little technical ability, you really can't go wrong with the Chinese ones unless you really want a genuine 8kw heater, which you'd want a pretty big boat for one of those..

 

[superheat6k]

you can’t have it both ways. If you want CE marking you need to pay. You’ve clearly chosen cheap and not marked. China produce Eberspachers too, you could have bought one and supported the marking schemes but you didn’t. Simple conclusion is you don’t actually want a level playing field, only when it suits you.

I never asked for, voted for, or indeed in anyway ever 'Wanted' some Eurocrat corrupt idiot dictating to me that everything I buy must have a 'CE' mark. I did not recognise its legitimacy then nor do I now. The best thing ever about CE marking is the simple translation to 'Chinese Export'.

May I also remind you the 'official' makers (namely Eberspacher & Webasto) were found guilty of price fixing and collusion, and of course this was EU 'CE' marked shite. Why on earth would anyone ever with more than 3 brain cells ever want to buy that crap ? I was foolish enough to do that pre Chinaspacher - never again.

 

[penfold]

We had the misfortune once to be berthed for the winter with a boat on the opposite marina pontoon behind us with an unsilenced diesel heater, outlet facing us. We never saw the occupants aboard the whole time we were there, but the heater appeared to be on a timer and made a not especially loud but very penetrating, irritating and intrusive constant roar/whine whenever it was on. Especially noticeable in the evenings/nights. Decidedly antisocial.

Wine bottles come with a cork, I'd be tempted to experiment.

 

[Fire99]

I never asked for, voted for, or indeed in anyway ever 'Wanted' some Eurocrat corrupt idiot dictating to me that everything I buy must have a 'CE' mark. I did not recognise its legitimacy then nor do I now. The best thing ever about CE marking is the simple translation to 'Chinese Export'.

May I also remind you the 'official' makers (namely Eberspacher & Webasto) were found guilty of price fixing and collusion, and of course this was EU 'CE' marked shite. Why on earth would anyone ever with more than 3 brain cells ever want to buy that crap ? I was foolish enough to do that pre Chinaspacher - never again.

Good points. I think you do need to look at the reality and not just the theoretical rhetoric. Having taken a fair bit of interest in diesel heaters over the past 18 months and having taken apart both Chinese and Eberspacher originals, I've got a bit of an angle. The problem with wholesale condemning Chinese heaters due to their origin is when you look at how many premium products are manufactured in nations (including China) that we tend to associate with poor quality goods. A LOT are. Greatest example the 'trusty' Apple Macbook. Designed in USA. Manufactured in Asustek facility in Suzhou, China.

Yep at one end of the spectrum you do have to accept the design of the Chinese heaters is a blatant copy and the controller plastics are often very 80s. And yep the ancillary bits n bobs (jubilee clips, silencer etc) are pretty naff, but this is a 100-200 quid 5kw (or 2kw if you prefer) heater kit. And if you install them with the same care as you would an EberBasto, they generally work pretty well. Not to mention spares are dirt cheap. But you accept the heater won't look all flash with nicely finished / designed bits n bobs.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Eberspachers etc have got worse. You take a very old Eber apart and its pretty industrial (but far from perfect) but more recently they are ok ish. But for the ok-ish quality (certainly more polished than the Chinaspacher) you are paying the most astonishing mark-up i've seen in a long time. If want a big heater 6kw+ with a large fan diameter for big vessels then you are limited to the likes of Eberspacher (or Planar/Autoterm which is a much better proposition in cost vs performance). China has pretty much stuck to the 2 +5kw Eber clones. I see Lavaner did a bigger one but they appear to have withdrawn it, probably due to patents or something if I were guessing)..

Let us not forget that for your 100-200 quid kit you normally get a remote control thrown in and yep it actually works. It looks rubbish but mine have never failed. In fact I use a similar remote control for my bowthruster and that's never failed either..

Other than the fact by price and sheer volume sold, the Chinese heaters have opened up the market to a lot of people who 'just give it a lash and see what happens' and so we hear of many many more problems (I think it's fair to say if you're buying a 2 grand EberBasto you won't be just having a lash at it) but that's just consequences of economics. Other than that I see the whole CE thing about the instructions a bit of a crude attempt to stem the flow of fossil fuel burning heaters (Lots of people are using them in their houses now) to a country that wants Net Zero.

Long live the Chinese heater, in my opinion

 

[Close hauled]

I would like to fit a diesel heater in our Frances 26. I can’t afford a Webasto or Eberspacher, so would like to hear any advice on choosing and fitting a Chinese model. Any recommendations or warnings about particular models will be very much appreciated!

Just seen your post. I have an Autoterm Planar 2kW diesel heater with top spec marine installation kit for sale. It’s new, still in the box, just a change of plan. Please private message me if you are interested.

 

[clyst]

The 8kw Chinese heater is just a 5kw with a 8kw label on it.

Source of the info please .

 

[ChromeDome]

I think everyone agrees that the dolumentation that comes with the Chinese warmers leaves a lot to be desired.

Does anyone know of, or perhaps have made, a usable version?

I seem to recall a debate about setting the frequency or dosage - could that be the explanation for the same heater being both 5kw and 8 kw?

 

[Graham_Wright]

I think everyone agrees that the dolumentation that comes with the Chinese warmers leaves a lot to be desired.

Does anyone know of, or perhaps have made, a usable version?

I seem to recall a debate about setting the frequency or dosage - could that be the explanation for the same heater being both 5kw and 8 kw?

I have two - one with a simple twiddle control, the other with a fancy display and remote radio control.
Instructions for the second give details of how to adjust the pump dosage frequency so I suspect you are correct.

 

[banger]

Run one, the square jobbys, for three years in my workshop, that's five days a week in winter, no problem with it, fire's up every time and is cheap to run, needs a decarbonising now as it's not producing as much heat.
Bought two last year as spares, £80 each, as I thought they might go up. Can't complain.

 

[doug748]

Typical Chinese.

They don't give a f@rt about rights and obligations if they can make money.
However, the EU defined marking must be the only one accepted by EU (and others who play by the same notes ..)

Don't be cruel, the heaters just happen to look like Eberspacher products.

The Chinese Export label just happens to look like an EU, CE mark, pure chance. Not devious at all, not contrived to mislead, could happen in any country in the world. ?

.