Did I remember to turn off the gas?

[Graham376]

We don't have a check-list but usually rely on reminding each other. Years ago YM issued a check-list. I think it was a give-away item. It amounted to a dozen or so things to check. I made my own list for our then Sadler 29 and it came to about thirty entires, at which point I gave up in disgust.

I was used to check lists from flying and gliding and in the early sailing days had too many cases of "I thought you'd done it"

 

[Graham376]

There used to be a joke in the gliding world that members at Lasham (a big and rigidly organised club) were so reliant on checklists that they had a checklist for following checklists. Well, I think it was a joke.

It was a bit more regimented than I was used to when I did my instructor course there about 45 years ago but OTOH, we were having a quiet drink in the bar late one evening when four blokes with torches headed for the unlit runway, to mark it for a Dan Air 727 to take off from their service base.

 

[pvb]

Purely academic question - How do you feed the gas to the gimballed stove - is this a weak point in the system?

With a loop of flexible rubber hose. Ideally, the hose should be replaced every 5 years or so. If properly routed, it shouldn't be a weak point. Remember that there's virtually no pressure in the pipe.

 

[rotrax]

Our stove is not gimballed - so we have fixed lines, copper pipe (except for the feed from the bottle to the regulator - located outside). Previous boats did not have gas.

Purely academic question - How do you feed the gas to the gimballed stove - is this a weak point in the system?

We also have a gas hot water heater (vented to the cockpit), again copper pipes throughout. We turn the pilot light off, or turn the gas off, when not in use.

Interestingly the stove/oven is not vented but the boiler is....?

Both boiler and stove/oven have been certificated.

We turn the gas off at the bottle when leaving, and we are on the boat, virtually, every week.

Jonathan

To feed gas to a gimballed stove flexible hose is used.

Obviously important to ensure chaffing/rubbing will not damage it.

Yesterday I used a gas torch to heat a pole end to remove the spring claw.

It is 43 years old and still has the OE hose on it. No cracking, splits, rubs or other damage.

Approved gas hose is pretty tough stuff ?

 

[capnsensible]

Braided flexible gas hose is quite common too connecting standing pipe work to a gimballed cooker.

 

[pvb]

Braided flexible gas hose is quite common too connecting standing pipe work to a gimballed cooker.

Common, but certainly not recommended as it's impossible to check.

 

[capnsensible]

Common, but certainly not recommended as it's impossible to check.

Another reason, probably, why sailing school boats are required to have an annual inspection by a qualified engineer.

 

[jdc]

Some interesting points: I think the fact that the boat is moving, sometimes quite violently, must be the most significant difference (and to a lesser extent our use of LPG versus methane which I mentioned in my starting post). Nevertheless I still feel that there is an element of continuing to follow an old practice for quite some time after the need for it has diminished. Anyone care to select a few other examples?

By the way, I do have a check-list including turning off the gas, and it turned out that I had indeed done so, but it got me thinking.

 

[Graham376]

Common, but certainly not recommended as it's impossible to check.

There's a dilemma. Manufacturer's installation instructions for our Neptune specify braided hose so, if wanting to meet the gas regs., has to be used.

 

[LadyInBed]

I have a mental check sheet, I must remember to add 'take away gash bag' to it as it often gets forgotten!

 

[JumbleDuck]

I was used to check lists from flying and gliding and in the early sailing days had too many cases of "I thought you'd done it"

Two instructors friends of mine took a mutual flight in a K13 during which they did a beautiful winch launch, back released and entered a graceful turn before working out that they had both had their hands on their straps since the all-out.

The classic check list failure example, though, is the Noel Edmonds show bungee-jumping death, in the investigation into which it turned out that nobody in the bungee-jumping team had the job of checking that the other end of the bungee was tied on. It was so obvious (till then) that it didn't need formal checking ...

 

[graham]

We turn on the gas at the bottle when we go aboard then leave it until we leave even if that's weeks later.

We do have a pilot gas alarm which only sounded once after leaking a tiny amount of gas from a portable heater which is now in the skip.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

A lot of people don't seem to be aware of the principle reason why a gas leak is more dangerous in a vessel: gas is heavier than air, and will accumulate in the bilge, with no way of dispersing. It is for this reason that gas lockers have overboard drains at the bottom.

The way to get rid of it is with the manual bilge pump: don't turn anything electric on or off if you suspect a gas leak.

Leaving checklist: great idea, particularly for those motorway panic moments: did I remember to secure the tiller/ put the winch handles away ...

 

[pvb]

The way to get rid of it is with the manual bilge pump

This is a painfully slow and laborious solution, and isn't guaranteed to work (as those on Lord Trenchard discovered).

 

[capnsensible]

This is a painfully slow and laborious solution, and isn't guaranteed to work (as those on Lord Trenchard discovered).

When was the last time the manual bilge pump was operated on Lord Trenchard prior to the gas explosion?

 

[mjcoon]

When was the last time the manual bilge pump was operated on Lord Trenchard prior to the gas explosion?

There's a discussion of how much manual pumping is actually required to remove sufficient of gas-air mixture to make a difference in the face of a steady gas leak.

 

[pvb]

When was the last time the manual bilge pump was operated on Lord Trenchard prior to the gas explosion?

I think it was the day before the explosion. However, the blind belief in using a bilge pump to ventilate bilges was typical of the "sailing by rote" method used by the Services. It doesn't work.

 

[pvb]

There's a discussion of how much manual pumping is actually required to remove sufficient of gas-air mixture to make a difference in the face of a steady gas leak.

It needs a huge amount of pumping to clear even a tiny build-up of gas. If the crew haven't bothered to tighten up the cylinder connection, and if the boat doesn't have a gas-tight locker, some sort of problem is going to occur. It's lucky that nobody died in the Lord Trenchard.

 

[capnsensible]

I think it was the day before the explosion. However, the blind belief in using a bilge pump to ventilate bilges was typical of the "sailing by rote" method used by the Services. It doesn't work.

How much sailing have you done in the Services? I'm sure you couldn't possibly be making up an unfounded opinion? Could you?

 

[pvb]

How much sailing have you done in the Services? I'm sure you couldn't possibly be making up an unfounded opinion? Could you?

Read the report into the incident.