Denial of Access thread. Can GDPR prevent me sharing an email ?

[Graham376]

Although a lawyers letter might say "without prejudice" or similar, that does not impinge on your right to share it with whomsoever you like. However, there might be a downside to doing so in terms of you winning a case but that's a separate matter. Lawyer / client privilege applies to the lawyer rather than the client. Richard

When I presented a claimant's lawyer's letter sent to me "without prejudice" to an employment tribunal, I was informed it couldn't be used in evidence, although it totally blew her changed story/evidence. The chairman left it on top of the bundle and I could see him keep glancing at it throughout proceedings. I won the case

 

[RichardS]

When I presented a claimant's lawyer's letter sent to me "without prejudice" to an employment tribunal, I was informed it couldn't be used in evidence, although it totally blew her changed story/evidence. The chairman left it on top of the bundle and I could see him keep glancing at it throughout proceedings. I won the case

Indeed so. The rules as to what can actually be entitled "without prejudice" are very specific and not understood even by some lawyers. Writing "without prejudice" at the top of a letter does not automatically deem it so, which is one reason why most lawyers now use the phrase "without prejudice save as to costs" or a variation of this.

Richard

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Dunno about GPDR or Copyright, but I am absolutely certain that if the landlord is using such terms you have absolutely no chance of gaining access while he still owns the land, and if you use a solicitor in connection with it, any rebate on what you paid for said access will be a part payment of their fee.

 

[Mister E]

My opinion is that if sharing the communication does not help is the problem of gaining access to all the boats at the moorings. Then this is not the time or the place to publish it.
Next year if there is not a renewal of the access agreement then maybe give it a second thought.

Would it help?

 

[Mark-1]

I am absolutely certain that if the landlord is using such terms you have absolutely no chance of gaining access while he still owns the land

Like you, I am beginning to suspect they've failed to charm the owner into renewing the contract come Spring.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Equally probably there is no landlord, access arrangement or letter and both related threads are just to a raise bit of a mild amusement for the OP (and indeed other readers).

 

[dom]

As I understand it – not a lawyer – marking something confidential does not have a formal meaning like “without prejudice”. That said, under UK law (English), I think the recipient of a communication explicitly marked “confidential”, even in the absence of an NDA, is bound not to disclose its contents other than for the purpose for which it was communicated. Other communications may be deemed implicitly confidential subject to a reasonableness test. So be careful. GDPR really only comes into the equation re data storage, but for goodness sake be careful relying on gung ho non-professional advice that it is definitionally a red herring.

To the OP, what on earth have these finer legal points to do with the price of rice? The landowner is clearly irritated by something, or his circumstances have changed. For example, there are people who walk across private land I have an interest in on their way to work. We banned cars because the duty of care associated with express permission was excessive. Now we let people walk cross 364 days a year, but ask security to close it one Sunday a year to prevent a formal right of way being established. Many other paths are like this.

Why not just take some mince pies around to him, put the kettle on, then sit down and try to sort out a sensible solution to this little storm. You’ll need an extra teacup for that.

 

[Binnacle]

Sadly, Mr rather cynical Elecglitch, this is a real-life situation. We have boats afloat to which we have been denied access, apart from using other very inconvenient and distant slipways. It is far from a bit of mild amusement, especially with tonight's forecast winds .

The advice from posters has been very useful in vectoring our thoughts and resources, and providing us with solid, sensible recommendations, which have already opened a chink in one door.

 

[dom]

Sadly, Mr rather cynical Elecglitch, this is a real-life situation. We have boats afloat to which we have been denied access, apart from using other very inconvenient and distant slipways. It is far from a bit of mild amusement, especially with tonight's forecast winds .

The advice from posters has been very useful in vectoring our thoughts and resources, and providing us with solid, sensible recommendations, which have already opened a chink in one door.

There is clearly some sort of implied contract involved. If you are worried about the vessel's safety, just go over the god damn gate! Don't damage his land and he probably won't care unless the whole relationship has gone spiteful.

If per chance he is fearful of the health and safety consequences of access - possibly legitimately - he may not even care.

 

[CLB]

Sadly, Mr rather cynical Elecglitch, this is a real-life situation. We have boats afloat to which we have been denied access, apart from using other very inconvenient and distant slipways. It is far from a bit of mild amusement, especially with tonight's forecast winds .

The advice from posters has been very useful in vectoring our thoughts and resources, and providing us with solid, sensible recommendations, which have already opened a chink in one door.

I do think you are overplaying the difficulties that this restriction of access has brought about. Driving 10 miles and accessing the boats from a different slipway doesn't sound too onerous to me. My boat feels like it is on my doorstep, but it is still around 10 miles away. Even if I did not have access to any other dinghies, I would have bought something used and got to my boat to check it long ago. If there is wind forecast and a boat breaks free, I don't think this dispute will help much when it comes to insurance negotiations. A 10 mile drive is not a good enough excuse to leave your boat unchecked for the amount of time being mentioned.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Sadly, Mr rather cynical Elecglitch, this is a real-life situation. We have boats afloat to which we have been denied access, apart from using other very inconvenient and distant slipways. It is far from a bit of mild amusement, especially with tonight's forecast winds .

The advice from posters has been very useful in vectoring our thoughts and resources, and providing us with solid, sensible recommendations, which have already opened a chink in one door.

and amusement to others, keep it up.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Then you don't know anything about copyright . Anything that a person creates in a durable medium is automatically subject to copyright, whether it's a masterpiece in oils or a rude note on a napkin.

In a modern world where copying many things is trivially easy, and necessary for some forms of communication, this sometimes collides a bit with everyday practice, but nevertheless it's how the law stands.

(I don't know anything about the GDPR but I suspect that part is nonsense designed to sound intimidating.)

Pete

IANAL - but it is my understanding that on our side of the pond, you don't even need any creative content, as long as creating the content took some effort - the example given in the seminars I attended was a list generated by picking out everyone whose initials began with "A" from the telephone book, which would be copyright because of the effort required to generate it, not because of any original content. The fact that it is also trivial to generate it would be reflected in the penalties imposed by the courts, but the fact of copyright would exist. However, other jurisdictions set a higher bar to the creation of copyright; in particular I think that in the USA there does have to be some originality.

Note also that in most of the world, copyright is exactly what it ways - a right. Copyright MUST exist in works that pass the test for being copyrightable - and that test is a very low one, which any letter would pass easily. YMMV in the USA, where there are constitutional limits on copyright that cause confusion when people try and apply their rules further afield. There's several wonderful examples in the field of digital mapping where the US POV is that a dataset isn't copyright (produced by US governmental agency), but which contains content whiich contributing agencies (e.g. the UK Ordnance Survey) say ARE copyright - even though they waive their rights in that particular instance. See VMAP0 for example!

 

[newtothis]

IANAL - but it is my understanding that on our side of the pond, you don't even need any creative content, as long as creating the content took some effort - the example given in the seminars I attended was a list generated by picking out everyone whose initials began with "A" from the telephone book, which would be copyright because of the effort required to generate it, not because of any original content.

Presumably, though, the copyright owner of the of the telephone book could then sue you for using his copyright material in generating your list.

 

[NormanS]

IANAL - but it is my understanding that on our side of the pond, you don't even need any creative content, as long as creating the content took some effort - the example given in the seminars I attended was a list generated by picking out everyone whose initials began with "A" from the telephone book, which would be copyright because of the effort required to generate it, not because of any original content. The fact that it is also trivial to generate it would be reflected in the penalties imposed by the courts, but the fact of copyright would exist. However, other jurisdictions set a higher bar to the creation of copyright; in particular I think that in the USA there does have to be some originality.

Note also that in most of the world, copyright is exactly what it ways - a right. Copyright MUST exist in works that pass the test for being copyrightable - and that test is a very low one, which any letter would pass easily. YMMV in the USA, where there are constitutional limits on copyright that cause confusion when people try and apply their rules further afield. There's several wonderful examples in the field of digital mapping where the US POV is that a dataset isn't copyright (produced by US governmental agency), but which contains content whiich contributing agencies (e.g. the UK Ordnance Survey) say ARE copyright - even though they waive their rights in that particular instance. See VMAP0 for example!

I find that post very difficult to understand. Or I would if I could be bothered. It has various groupings of letters in CAPITAL letters, some of which are probably just words being emphasised, and others which may or may not be acronyms.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I find that post very difficult to understand. Or I would if I could be bothered. It has various groupings of letters in CAPITAL letters, some of which are probably just words being emphasised, and others which may or may not be acronyms.

That says rather more about your powers of comprehension than the quality of AP's explanation.

 

[NormanS]

That says rather more about your powers of comprehension than the quality of AP's explanation.

Who rattled your cage?

 

[Blue Sunray]

Who rattled your cage?

 

[lw395]

I do think you are overplaying the difficulties that this restriction of access has brought about. Driving 10 miles and accessing the boats from a different slipway doesn't sound too onerous to me. My boat feels like it is on my doorstep, but it is still around 10 miles away. Even if I did not have access to any other dinghies, I would have bought something used and got to my boat to check it long ago. If there is wind forecast and a boat breaks free, I don't think this dispute will help much when it comes to insurance negotiations. A 10 mile drive is not a good enough excuse to leave your boat unchecked for the amount of time being mentioned.

Exactly.
I'd have borrowed an avon dinghy or something and got in my car ages ago.
If you want to avoid paying marina mooring prices, you've got to put up with the effort needed.
The fact that you've had a great deal in the past doesn't always guarantee anything much for the future.
I used to be able to drive to Old Portsmouth, park for free all weekend and have free use of the slipway.
Time moves on, you have to look forwards.

I would think the market rate for providing access to moorings is a substantial sum per mooring.

 

[dom]

I find that post very difficult to understand. Or I would if I could be bothered. It has various groupings of letters in CAPITAL letters, some of which are probably just words being emphasised, and others which may or may not be acronyms.

SMH; BTW WTF does USA mean?

 

[lpdsn]

... the example given in the seminars I attended was a list generated by picking out everyone whose initials began with "A" from the telephone book, ...

That counts as a major work of art with a good chance of winning the Turner Prize.