Delivery South of France to Ionian

[luturna]

Hi, does anybody have any up close and personal info about the issues with Italy rescuing people to the South of Sicily. My boat is being delivered to Greece by friends, setting off in a few weeks. We have decided to go through the straits of Messina to avoid going round the South of Sicily, as a precaution. Is there any danger to private yachts in the area? Any and all input appreciated

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wouldn't worry , I would be more worried about weather , sea state , Marina fee , price of fuel , who sells the colds beer or where to get the biggest piza .
We have sail across North Sicily , South Sicily Malta , Tunisia and the all talked about Island of Lampedusa over the last few years and so far we not come across any ,

 

[luturna]

Definitely, I hear what you say. We have, of course, already considered all of the above, and all on board have all done it before, but you know how it is, UK TV makes a big deal out of everything going on and I just wanted some input from anyone in the area who may know more about what the real situation is. I assume if you are in that area, you would know best. Thanks for your reply.

 

[RobbieW]

Mostly agree with Vic, although the reports suggest there are far more migrants this year than in previous years. We are in Licata and have seen a number of friends leave heading east for Greece and the Adriatic, so far none have failed to arrive. Given that most migrant boats are leaving from Libya, the closest points in the EU to western Libya are Lampedusa, Malta then SE Sicily. Many of the UK reports are from Catania, in previous years we've seen migrants boats being brought in to Siracusa so consistent with western Libya departures. The best advice is pretty much stay well clear of anything looking like a migrant boat and keep a sharp lookout especially at night. There is no evidence of migrants or migrant boats here in Licata.

 

[luturna]

Thanks RobbieW, appreciate your reply. I'm just trying to cover all eventualities. Always best to do your research before setting off. The skipper and crew are all aware they need to do as you suggest. . . keep a sharp eye open (as always of course) and steer clear of anything suspicious. Good to hear from anyone in the region. Cheers

 

[Sea Devil]

Louise and I are heading off from Gib in a month or so on our summer cruise and intend circumnavigating round Scilly. .... If that's what it's called! Having been attacked, boarded and robbed by pirates I too have been wondering what my approach to boats or people in trouble would be.

I do not want any of these people on board my boat if I can possibly help it. If I let them below they are so poor the temptation to steal things will probably be overwhelming.
If I see a boat in difficulties I will put out a mayday or pan pan and get the Italian authorities on the job and I will stand by at a distance but not go alongside.
If there are people in the water I will call Italian authorities as before but attempt to pick them up but will close all hatches and access to below. Then standby for the Italian Navy/Coastguard.

I don't think people trying to break into Europe will attempt to steal the boat and from my Gulf of Aden experience I suspect 'authorities' to arrive on scene in around half an hour to an hour.

There is a clear moral and legal requirement to assist those in peril on the sea but I think one has to be clear as to the 'peril'. An overloaded trawler or fishing boat might well be in danger of founding but my 43ft boat has limited area for rescued people so I can't see taking them off one overcrowded craft into a small boat is necessarily the right answer.

People in the water should be given every assistance of course but that does not necessarily include more than securing them alongside and waiting for the appropriate authorities..

I did not realise the pirates in the Gulf of Aden were more than a group of desperately overcrowded lifeboats until they opened fire and I will not make the same mistake again. I thin the situation around Scilly is very different.

Michael

 

[luturna]

Hi, thank your for your open and frank reply. . . I have to say that your post confirms what we had been thinking . . . . . hopefully it will never be an issue but it's good to hear other views. Thanks again

 

[Tony Cross]

Louise and I are heading off from Gib in a month or so on our summer cruise and intend circumnavigating round Scilly. .... If that's what it's called! Having been attacked, boarded and robbed by pirates I too have been wondering what my approach to boats or people in trouble would be.

I do not want any of these people on board my boat if I can possibly help it. If I let them below they are so poor the temptation to steal things will probably be overwhelming.
If I see a boat in difficulties I will put out a mayday or pan pan and get the Italian authorities on the job and I will stand by at a distance but not go alongside.
If there are people in the water I will call Italian authorities as before but attempt to pick them up but will close all hatches and access to below. Then standby for the Italian Navy/Coastguard.

I don't think people trying to break into Europe will attempt to steal the boat and from my Gulf of Aden experience I suspect 'authorities' to arrive on scene in around half an hour to an hour.

There is a clear moral and legal requirement to assist those in peril on the sea but I think one has to be clear as to the 'peril'. An overloaded trawler or fishing boat might well be in danger of founding but my 43ft boat has limited area for rescued people so I can't see taking them off one overcrowded craft into a small boat is necessarily the right answer.

People in the water should be given every assistance of course but that does not necessarily include more than securing them alongside and waiting for the appropriate authorities..

I did not realise the pirates in the Gulf of Aden were more than a group of desperately overcrowded lifeboats until they opened fire and I will not make the same mistake again. I thin the situation around Scilly is very different.

Michael

Personally I think you're being a tad naive. The "economic migrants" on these boats may well pose no danger to you but the two or three human traffickers also on board pose a very great danger for any small vessel close enough to report their position. Friends of a Cruising Association member were chased by a migrant boat for several hours, they felt in real fear for their lives, no response was obtained on a great many Mayday calls made, and they only just managed to escape.

The general advice is to stay well away. Make a Mayday Relay call if you feel you must but be ready to run for it.

 

[luturna]

Yes, we plan to use caution at all times. Maybe safer just to go through the Messina strait . . .

 

[Sea Devil]

Personally I think you're being a tad naive. The "economic migrants" on these boats may well pose no danger to you but the two or three human traffickers also on board pose a very great danger for any small vessel close enough to report their position. Friends of a Cruising Association member were chased by a migrant boat for several hours, they felt in real fear for their lives, no response was obtained on a great many Mayday calls made, and they only just managed to escape.

The general advice is to stay well away. Make a Mayday Relay call if you feel you must but be ready to run for it.

I think it is very possible that you could be approached or even chased by migrant boats. The words you write above are from the perceptions of people in a boat in a major panic. In fact nothing happened to them. It was their perception of danger not the reality. There are often tales of friends of friends that 'expand' with the telling.

I was shot at boarded and robbed in the Gulf of Aden, but my mayday call was answered on VHF by a passing US fleet auxiliary even as the bullets from AK47's passed through the sail. It was the arrival of this ship that caused the flight of the pirates. The concept that a mayday call or a call to a coast radio station would go unanswered in Italian waters seems unlikely, if it was correctly transmitted, and the coast radio stations would be very likely to respond.

I said in my previous post that I think one should exercise caution but the circumstances around people trying to get into Europe are different from Somalian pirates. Most of my Italian friends would smile and say of course you should exercise caution but there are few things in life worth doing, that do not involve some slight degree of risk - if it's only food poisoning or ....

Re Messina: I expect you are up to speed with the new 'traffic regulations'? You have to contact them before arrival and agree a time and date for the entrance to the Strait. Failure to do so can involve substantial fines.

I quite like the passage through the Golf of Corinth as it has such beautiful stops and what you save on fuel can go towards the canal charge but it all depends where you are heading in Greece.

Michael

 

[RobbieW]

....
Re Messina: I expect you are up to speed with the new 'traffic regulations'? You have to contact them before arrival and agree a time and date for the entrance to the Strait. Failure to do so can involve substantial fines...

Not completely true, so far as I'm aware this is still the current document from the Italian CG - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...xICoAw&usg=AFQjCNFdGig3SuCL3fjM9W90JWMVHnSHSA. Pleasure vessels under 45m are supposed to be exempt but if you stay out of the TSS and/or cross at the 'roundabout' there should be no issue, its a bit tight on the edges but can be done.

 

[Sea Devil]

Not completely true, so far as I'm aware this is still the current document from the Italian CG - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...xICoAw&usg=AFQjCNFdGig3SuCL3fjM9W90JWMVHnSHSA. Pleasure vessels under 45m are supposed to be exempt but if you stay out of the TSS and/or cross at the 'roundabout' there should be no issue, its a bit tight on the edges but can be done.

This was certainly true 'MINISTERO DELLE INFRASTRUTTURE E DEI TRASPORTIMESSINA VTS“USER’S MANUAL”PUBLISHED 02 October 2013' .................in 2013

My latest info is that the new regs apply - I will find out when I get there in a couple of months, but fines have been imposed recently on small boats.......

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re Messina: I expect you are up to speed with the new 'traffic regulations'? You have to contact them before arrival and agree a time and date for the entrance to the Strait. Failure to do so can involve substantial fines.

I quite like the passage through the Golf of Corinth as it has such beautiful stops and what you save on fuel can go towards the canal charge but it all depends where you are heading in Greece.

Michael

Hi Michael
What new traffic reg Are you referring to ?and where did you get " your lastest info " from? I guessing what youread on the Internet , hear say , Has I understand it a yacht can sailing though the messina strait ( has we did in 2014) has no obligation as long as it out side the TS lanes and doesn't crossing the lanes does not need to contact TC and only if you do then you have to abide by there request of information and to keep in contact with them .
Some of this miss leading info has come because of a yacht who was as I understand it in side the TS lanes got stop for not reporting in Before entering the TSS , of couse nothing stop you contacting T C , but once you have you are then classed as participate in the system and have to abide to all the rules untill you leave the TSS

 

[Sea Devil]

I think you are right - I normally go into Regio as it is cheaper than Messina which of course means crossing the shipping lane...


Michael