Delicate and Tender Question

[BetweenBoats]

OK. So I bought a boat a few months back. It has a tender garage.

I bought the boat through a broker, but given the previous owner lives very close to me, I ended up talking to the previous owner a lot during the sale process.

Throughout the sale process, the tender garage had a 3m-ish Avon Rib with an 11hp outboard on it. It has a central bench seat with a steering wheel and thottle control.

The broker's sale details make no mention of the tender on the inventory. During the sale process the previous owner, made mention of the tender several times explaining how well maintained it was and how it had been recently serviced with new throttle and steering cables. The previous owner also went through the process of showing me the service bills for the tender. My surveyor also surveyed the tender and included it in his condition report
During the sale process, the tender was discussed on several occasions, but at no point was it explicitly excluded from the sale. However, neither was it specifically included in the sale via the broker's sale particulars.

On the day I paid for the boat, the previous owner called me once the money had gone through. He asked if I wanted to buy some boat bits he had, but I declined. He then said that he and I would need to make arrangements for him to collect the tender. I said at that point that I had assumed the tender was included in the sale. He was categorical that it wasn't and referred me to the sale particulars. I mentioned several discussions we had had about the service history for the tender, but he said that it was never his intention to include the tender in the sale.

I'm not that bothered about the tender to be fair. It's a bit scruffy, and my preference would be for a jet rib. However, I do feel a bit like I've been ripped off. I reckon the tender is worth 3k maybe 4k tops.

It's been six weeks now and he hasn't responded to my request for him to come and pick up the tender. As well as feeling deceived slightly, I'm not happy about carting someone's tender around the Solent indefinitely.

My questions are...
1. Am I right to feel aggrieved that he withdrew the tender from the sale after it was completed?
2. Do I have recourse?
3. If he doesn't come to get his tender, what are my options?
4. Is there any point at which it becomes mine if he doesn't collect it?
5. Do I have any liability as far as the tender is concerned?

Apologies for the long post, but I know there's some smart people on here and I know you like to have all the data

 

[andy59]

If not listed in the contract I wouldn't think its included . I would offer £500 or tell him to collect it from the marina visitor pontoon as its his property and responsibility to remove .

 

[Imperial One]

As a broker, it always amazes me how much some owners get attached to the tender - often seemingly much more so than the boat!
I understand your feelings and if it was specifically spoken about and repair bills shown to you then it is clear to me that it also formed part of the negotiation.
If a vendor says to me, I want to keep the tender, we put on the details that the Tender is NOT included. Invariably it becomes part of the haggling later on anyway.
I would say that the broker needs to have a strong word about it with the vendor.
The vendor should either make some suitable price adjustment for the, shall we call it, "misunderstanding" or include it in the deal as you thought it was and buy himself a nice new/secondhand one.

To be honest tenders are not easy to sell secondhand and as such they make little money. I had a 3.4 Avon RIB with a 25hp and only 27 hours on the clock but because it was 6 years old struggled to get £600 for it! A new one would have cost thousands but that the way it is.

Either way, I hope it is soon resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[jfm]

Everything turns on the contract, and particularly the description of the property sold. If it was the boat and all her equip,ment blabla, with no exclusion of the tender, then with one proviso, the tender is yours. The huge majority of boats are sold with tender, so the obligation on him is to exclude it. The fact he didn't exclude it, and discussed the servicing etc, means that it was part of the sale and it's yours.

The proviso is where you said "my request for him to come and pick up the tender" and your other statements above that imply your agreement that it is his. That might have constituted or serve as evidence of your acceptance of his claim to ownership, and your "request" email might constitute a transfer of equitable ownership but it depends on what exactly you said and also whether any consideration was given for your saying that. You are into a fine point of contract law that we could expand on hugely but as a quick example: suppose I own a car outright, no question it is my car. Bizarrely you bombard me with emails claiming it is your car, for some weird reason. If I reply "Ok yes it is your car" then there is no enforceable contract under which you can sue for the car. The car might become your property if I hand it to you, but if I don't hand it to you it doesn't become yours despite my reply "it is your car", if you didn't give any consideration. So the tender became yours when you bought the boat, and your email might or might not have constituted an enforceable promise to give it back to the guy. Devil is all in detail here and there is nowhere near enough info in your post on that aspect.

Ref your 5 Q's
1. Feel whatever you want (!), but yes basically, subject to the above
2. Yes. Just keep possession of the tender. Tell him it is yours, "end of". He knows where the courts are if he wishes to take it further. Mark the tender "T/T xxxx" and keep the garage door locked
3. It's likely already yours as per above. Keep it, sell it, burn it on a bonfire, whatever.
4. It's likely already yours as per above. If it weren't yours, then no. Your responsibility to take care of it ceases after a month or two, but it doesn't become your property. you could assert ownership of it in grounds he has abandoned it and you likely wouldn't suffer any downside, but it doesn't automatically become your property. (You are bailee of it, if you want to google it some more, but seems a bit academic to me)
5. As bailee, you have a duty to take reasonable care of it for a reasonable time. Leaving it in existing tender garage for one month would satisfy that. Then dump it somewhere if you want. Failure in this duty isn't any offence by you; it merely puts the other guy in a position where he can claim in tort, and obviously he isn't likely to

 

[benjenbav]

Last boat I bought I had what I thought was a bizarre experience. Like OP the boat was photographed with a tender and the broker's details mentioned it and the o/b motor it had etc and it seemed to be part of the package.

The day before the intended handover, at which point no contract had been signed and no money had changed hands, I was told that the tender was not to be included.

This seemed like nickel and diming on a major scale: the blimmin' thing was probably worth £500 tops, and - for about 10 minutes - I felt like responding by simply wishing them all the very best of luck in finding a new buyer and then it occurred to me that that I really liked the boat and it just wasn't an issue worth spending any time worrying about.

Back to the OP's questions. I'm 100% in agreement with jfm.

 

[Firefly625]

Obviously jfm's answer is always spot on, in a layman's response I would say he may have been trying it on a little bit, really odd that the history and details were spoken about throughout then it suddenly was not included in the sale...that's just odd. The fact he has not been straight round to collect suggests he does not have a trailer to do so, therefore may never come and collect unless he plans to buy another boat and at that time will want it.... which maybe when exactly....?! In my opinion its yours, enjoy/sell/ or indeed burn it! (if you plan to do the latter, I will take it off you to save matches!)

the total opposite happened to me when I bought my boat earlier this year. There was no mention of an tender or outboard on sale details and nothing on the boat. Once the transaction had been completed, monies paid in full the previous owner came down to the boat when I was on board and said he had a dinghy and outboard that he had forgotten to include that was mine if I wanted it...was sitting in his garage at home. Ended up being a brand new 2.6m Zodiac that had professionally fitted snap davit pads which of course fitted the clips on the transom, along with a lovely Mercury 3.5hp OB 2 stroke which he had owned from new and had only used half a dozen times...

 

[jrudge]

you have it - you keep it. You have paid for the boat - if he did not want to include it should have taken it before is was sold. i assume the contract did not mention the fenders, water in the tank, knives and forks and whatever. Boat was sold is it stood I assume.

Tender storage is expensive.... he probably owes you money by now!

 

[Nick_H]

I agree with Firefly, he was probably just trying it on, hoping that you'd offer him something to keep it, or maybe he's just told his wife what he sold the boat for and she's giving him some grief! If he'd always intended to keep it, he'd have removed it before you took delivery.

Poor job by the broker not to make sure it was clear whether the tender was included or not.

Who makes an 11 hp outboard, never heard of one!

 

[BartW]

I would publish the name of the broker on here,
and advice everybody not to use him anymore

I find this very bad manners of the broker,
its the brokers expertise and obligation to make such details clear during the sales process

 

[superheat6k]

I have kept the scruffy RIB I acquired with OB. The Broker's advice followed was simple - it was not on the boat when he photographed it, as it was in my garden for the Winter. On his advice it remains in the garden, and the buyer has no knowledge of it, it forms no part of the sale, and is mentioned nowhere.

It is my means of remaining able to have some form of boating in the void period of non ownership I now face (I think others non boaters call it normal life !) - might just be the Horse & Jockey or perhaps one of the two Jolly Sailors but so what, I will still be afloat, and it goes like smelly stuff of a hot polished shovel.

My view would be it wasn't removed when the sale was completed, and is hardly 'Stores' or 'Personal possessions', which are the only two categories I can remove from boat under the contract I signed yesterday.

 

[henryf]

If he's waxing lyrical about the tender then it's included. Did they specifically list the fenders / are they expecting to collect them?

The former owner needs to cast his mind back a few months when he would have done anything to get the boat sold. Now you've bought it and he's got the money he's put his greedy boots on and forgotten all the stress he had worrying about whether his boat would sell or not.

Henry

 

[Spi D]

I'd say the tender is included as per other posts.

Contractually even oral agreements are binding, they are just so damned hard to document most of times.

 

[fireball]

Nothing to offer other than ....

I find it amazing that people put boats on sale without leaving it as they intend to sell it - our last boat was like that - hauled ashore for winter - so not as though theyre using it - filled with personal items - so a buyer doesn't know specifically what items are included - in our case specifically the kettle was removed that I would've assumed came with the boat - but wasn't an item worth bothering about.
When we sold, the boat (hauled out so we weren't using it) was presented with all the items the purchaser would be buying - no exception.

We do now have a tender for sale ... but not really sure where we should be advertising a lightly used Walkerbay Genesis as they don't seem to be anywhere online ...

 

[P4Paul]

Nothing to offer other than ....

I find it amazing that people put boats on sale without leaving it as they intend to sell it - our last boat was like that - hauled ashore for winter - so not as though theyre using it - filled with personal items - so a buyer doesn't know specifically what items are included - in our case specifically the kettle was removed that I would've assumed came with the boat - but wasn't an item worth bothering about.
When we sold, the boat (hauled out so we weren't using it) was presented with all the items the purchaser would be buying - no exception.

We do now have a tender for sale ... but not really sure where we should be advertising a lightly used Walkerbay Genesis as they don't seem to be anywhere online ...

Looked at one boat in a well known yard on the South Coast which still had the remains of the desert and coffee festering away on the table and the other plates, cutlery and saucepans swimming in a mould covered bowl in the sink. It was like the Marie Celeste.

Advertised as ready to sail away!

 

[benjenbav]

Nothing to offer other than ....

I find it amazing that people put boats on sale without leaving it as they intend to sell it - our last boat was like that - hauled ashore for winter - so not as though theyre using it - filled with personal items - so a buyer doesn't know specifically what items are included - in our case specifically the kettle was removed that I would've assumed came with the boat - but wasn't an item worth bothering about.
When we sold, the boat (hauled out so we weren't using it) was presented with all the items the purchaser would be buying - no exception.

We do now have a tender for sale ... but not really sure where we should be advertising a lightly used Walkerbay Genesis as they don't seem to be anywhere online ...

Someone on another thread was looking for something very similar a couple of days ago to go on the back of a Phantom 50. Maybe you should connect!

 

[fireball]

Advertised as ready to sail away!

Or run away from .... very quickly!

I don't think people realise just what effect having a load of tat lying about does for the chance to sell a vessel ...

 

[fireball]

Someone on another thread was looking for something very similar a couple of days ago to go on the back of a Phantom 50. Maybe you should connect!

Oo ... ok - ta I'll do a search

 

[longjohnsilver]

Nothing to offer other than ....

We do now have a tender for sale ... but not really sure where we should be advertising a lightly used Walkerbay Genesis as they don't seem to be anywhere online ...

I'd stick a classified ad on Ebay as well as boatsandoutboards. And give us some details here, you never know, someone may be interested.............

 

[fireball]

I'd stick a classified ad on Ebay as well as boatsandoutboards. And give us some details here, you never know, someone may be interested.............

I'll have to pull my finger out and get it ready to sell .... !