Deep and seaworthy cockpits

[jimi]

Is there such a thing, don't they just fill with water and risk the boat getting swamped , are'nt you much better with the open transom of the modern AWB so any water shipped just drains instantaneously?

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[A_7]

Yes, no and no.

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[jimi]

Understand the yes but the rationale for the no and no??? .. surely instantaneous draining must be good or is that too simplistic?

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[claymore]

Claymore's cockpit is deep but I've never tested its seaworthyness.
The problem with it being deep is that I don't have the longest legs in the business and sometimes getting my leg over can be a problem.
Perhaps an AWB would be ideal - do they come with eberspachers and a wheelhouse?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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[zefender]

Yes and no

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[Robin]

Isn't it all a question of extremes? I dont like the open transom of the out and out racer too much, it is too easy for things to disappear out the back with or without the bathwater. The 'deep and sheltered' bit I think refers to cockpits that you sit IN rather than the mere footwells of a flat out racer. Our current boat I believe has the best of both worlds with comfy and safe sit-IN seating as well as being very comfy (position A stuff) whilst sitting on the coamings which are nicely angled so as to be flat when the boat heels. Cockpit drains in our case are straight through and massive (about 90mm dia) so are effective both at shifting the water or gobbling up anything dropped within a pretty wide area, to the extent that I have made some nylon dishwasher scourer 'plugs' for when I'm likely to drop bits.

Personally I find the cockpits on some older designs to be very uncomfortable, the backrest angles are wrong, the seats too far apart or too close for bracing yourself and the coamings too narrow to sit up on. French boats have long been better at cockpit ergonomics IMO, not just because I now own one either!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[jimi]

On my boat I've got an open transom under the seat behind the helm and any water shipped just goes straight out and I'm by no means a racer. On a couple of the older boats I've been on, the cockpit drains are very small and could be easily blocked so that if pooped Id imagine the boat would become sluggish and much at risk of further pooping?

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[zefender]

Water, a bit like chain when anchoring, is generally better outside the boat rather than inside. Arguably I suppose, in a big following breaking sea, the open transom doesn't keep the water out very well, so the 'first line of defence' is compromised a bit on an open transom. Personally, I think semi-open but not entirely open is the best contribution to safety. But neither are very good at stopping mugs, cans and little people being sucked, jaws-like into the sea!

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[ParaHandy]

Re: things disappearing ..

.. and on that subject, a cup of tea is more readily kept upright on a MAB because they're upright more often (certainly more than some) .... and the enclosed space make it more likely to keep the crockery onboard. jist mentioning some practical aspects ...

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[Robin]

Yes that is a good compromise though I suspect SWMBO would lose the occasional pair of sunglasses to good King Neptune! Our old boat was centre cockpit, so higher up and very quick draining with 4 good drains, but not so vulnerable anyway to being pooped. Our current aft cockpit 'feels' more exposed to big following seas simply because of it's aft location but a combination of huge drains and a high bridgedeck is reassuring.

Some older designs I would agree are very deep, need at least the bottom washboard in and have pathetically small drains often made even smaller by cross bars or grills. To add to their problems they may well also have deep cockpit lockers open to the bilge that have ill fitting lids so another potential for problems.



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[FWB]

Claymore I've had a problem getting my leg over recently. So it is after all something to do with the size of my cockpit !

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[MainlySteam]

Scenario:

Deep cockpit, full transom with 2 approx 150mm x 75 mm drains at floor level straight out the back through it. Don't know how far floor is above waterline but probably not much different to, if not higher than most open transomed boats.

Negative Observations:

Takes one hell of a long time to drain much water out the transom drains - in fact surprising slow.

Positive Observations:

We would spend an awful lot of time with water washing into the cockpit from following seas if we had an open transom. As it is following seas regularly come in through the transom drains very fast - in fact surprising fast.

John

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[Robin]

Re: things disappearing ..

But you don't have a MAB by my definitions! Actually angle of heel in modern designs is often less because of the built in form stability resisting initial heeling whereas on narrower heavily ballasted designs you need to heel quite away before the ballast in the keel has any real righting movement. We have a lovely old wooden boat near us that I helped back in her berth on Sunday after a brisk sail, her teak decks were soaked almost to the centreline on port side, we on the otherhand rarely dip the lee rail and if we do we are being slowed and will go faster more upright with a reef in.

To be really pedantic of course it is no good keeping the teacup upright if the tea contained is heeled and slopping over the edge...

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Twister_Ken]

In 30 something years of sailing I've yet to be pooped, so its all a bit academic, ne c'est pas?



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[boatless]

I've only been truly pooped once, on a First 38. Cockpit filled to the brim, and it drained amazingly quickly through two two inch drains - at least I think that's what it had.

Edit - relatively shallow cockpit though.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by boatless on 30/06/2004 09:58 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[charles_reed]

Whilst it\'s almost an oxymoron

there is a grain of sense in the description.

A deep cockpit has it's floor close to the boat's CofG resulting in a much easier movement even if making drainage more difficult.
High coamings make it rather less likely for you to be tossed out - and having experienced just such a fate (I was back on board before my bemused crew could do anything but gape at me).
The majority of modern boats have large open cockpits with light displacement - the cockpit capacity when flooded is in the order of tons and an appreciable % of their displacement.

Those who have experienced the delightful effect of being pooped will know that even with an open transom it take some time for the cockpit to drain and until that happens the boat is lifeless and a sitting duck for the next comber: and the open transom is the very thing which encourages those waves to share your seating.
Admittedly these are in seastates >8 and most yotties will never (very sensibly) experience them.

So a small deep cockpit with large (>100mm) 1-way flapped drains. Is my idea of a "seaworthy" cockpit.

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[Roberto]

***On a couple of the older boats I've been on, the cockpit drains are very small and could be easily blocked ***

block the drains, fill two thirds of the cockpit with sea water, add 2 or 3 big pans of boiling water, a squirt of bath foam... and enjoy!

cockpit seats will be excellent as G/T glass holders



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[zefender]

When my kids were toddlers and we chartered in Greece (in closed cockpit boats) we often used to fill the cockpit and block the drains so they had a mini-paddling pool whilst we were underway. Deeply unseamnalike I know and I should of course be birched for such an offense.

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[MainlySteam]

<<<I've yet to be pooped>>>

Probably because you do not have an open transom, est-ce vrai?

John

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[extravert]

MAB?

Manky Auld Boat
Motorised Aweseome Beast
Mostly At Berth
My Ancient Bathtub
Merely Another BenJenBav

Whassis one mean then?

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.